PAUL C in the War Room - XIII : It is kismet, Hardy!

The Battle of Trafalgar in 1805 was decisive and left the British navy seriously unchallenged as the premier fleet until the Second World War eight generations later. The British vanquished the combined French and Spanish fleets and, though Nelson was mortally wounded in the battle, he remains my nations premier naval hero.

The Opening Words

River East, River West by Aube Rey Lescure will be the fifth of the six Women's Prize shortlist that I will read.




" A man called Lu Fang stole Alva's mother in Grand Ballroom B of Shanghai's Imperial Hotel. The 88,888-yuan luncheon wedding came with five cold appetizers, two soups, four meat dishes, three seafood dishes, plus Western-style black pepper steak, sugar-cream cake, and artificial flower bouquets. So expensive, yet so tasteless, Alva thought as she took in the windowless function room, the musty red-and-gold carpeting, the fabric petals scattered over each banquet table. Nothing like the white and pastel weddings of American movies, the candles and gazebos, the bridesmaids in their flowing gowns. Then again, her mother wasn't that kind of bride."



Interested .......................?

Books Read

January

1. Dear Future Boyfriend by Cristin O'Keefe Aptowicz (2000) 90 pp Poetry / 150Y Challenge 15/150
2. Pax Romana by Adrian Goldsworthy (2016) 420 pp Non-Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 16/150
3. The Lantern Bearers by Rosemary Sutcliff (1959) 306 pp Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 17/150
4. Black Hearts in Battersea by Joan Aiken (1964) 286 pp Fiction / BAC / 150Y Challenge 18/150
5. Carthage Must Be Destroyed by Richard Miles (2010) 373 pp Non-Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 19/150
6. When We Were Warriors by Emma Carroll (2019) 248 pp Fiction / War Room / 150y Challenge 20/150
7. Double Indemnity by James M Cain (1936) 136 pp Thriller / 150Y Challenge 21/150
8. Persian Fire by Tom Holland (2005) 376 pp Non-Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 22/150

February

9. North Woods by Daniel Mason (2023) 369 pp Fiction 150Y Challenge 23/150
10. The African by JMG Le Clezio (2004) 106 pp Non-Fiction / 150Y Challenge 24/150
11. The British are Coming by Rick Atkinson (2019) 564 pp Non-Fiction / War Room
12. Death Comes for the Archbishop by Willa Cather (1927) 297 pp Fiction 150Y Challenge 25/150
13. Redcoat by Bernard Cornwell (1987) 405 pp Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 26/150

March

14. Fatal Colours by George Goodwin (2011) 239 pp Non-Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 27/150
15. R.S. Thomas : Selected Poems by R.S. Thomas (2003) 343 pp Poetry / BAC / 150Y Challenge 28/150
16. The Maiden by Kate Foster (2023) 370 pp Fiction
17. The Storm We Made by Vanessa Chan (2024) 334pp Fiction / Warm Room
18. The Wren, The Wren by Anne Enright (2023) 273 pp Fiction
19. The Brothers York : An English Tragedy by Thomas Penn (2019) 572 pp Non-Fiction / War Room
20. Pet by Catherine Chidgey (2023) 323 pp Fiction
21. Brotherless Night by VV Ganeshanathan (2023) 341 pp Fiction
22. Breakdown by Cathy Sweeney (2024) 217 pp Fiction
23. Under Milk Wood by Dylan Thomas (1954) 108 pp Drama / BAC / 150 Y Challenge 29/150
24. Bosworth: Psychology of a Battle by Michael Jones (2002) 220 pp Non-Fiction/ War Room / 150Y Challenge 30/150

Books Read 2nd Quarter

April

25. The Sweet Science by A.J. Liebling (1956) 232 pp Non-Fiction / AAC / 150Y Challenge 31/150
26. The Talented Mr. Ripley by Patricia Highsmith (1955) 249pp Thriller / 150Y Challenge 32/150 / 1001 Books
27. Enter Ghost by Isabella Hammad (2023) 319 pp Fiction / War Room
28. Quartet in Autumn by Barbara Pym (1977) 186 pp Fiction / 150Y Challenge 33/150 / BAC/ 1001 Books
29. A History of the Crusades I by Steven Runciman (1951) 281 pp Non-Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 34/150
30. Loot by Tania James (2023) 289 pp Fiction
31. Field Work by Seamus Heaney (1979) 56 pp Poetry / 150Y Challenge 35/150
32. A History of the Crusades II by Steven Runciman (1952) 385 pp Non-Fiction / War Room
33. A History of the Crusades III by Steven Runciman (1954) 401 pp Non-Fiction / War Room
34. Soldier Sailor by Claire Kilroy (2023) 233 pp Fiction
35. The People of Hemso by August Strindberg (1887) 152 pp Fiction / 1001 Books / 150Y Challenge 36/150
36. Five Children and It by E. Nesbit (1902) 237 pp Fiction / 150Y Challenge 37/150
37. The Way We Live Now by Anthony Trollope (1875) 766 pp Fiction / BAC / 150Y Challenge 38/150
38. The Details by Ia Genberg (2022) 151 pp Fiction / 150Y Challenge 39/150

May

39. Napoleon by Alan Forrest (2011) 331 pp Non-Fiction / War Room
40. The List of Suspicious Things by Jennie Godfrey (2024) 449 pp Fiction

Current Reading

The War Room



JANUARY - Ancient Wars (Greeks/Romans/Persians/Carthage/Egyptians/Alexander, etc) https://www.librarything.com/topic/356820
1. Pax Romana by Adrian Goldsworthy
2. The Lantern Bearers by Rosemary Sutcliff
3. Carthage Must Be Destroyed by Richard Miles
4. Persian Fire by Tom Holland

FEBRUARY - The American War of Independence : https://www.librarything.com/topic/358097#n8402612
1. The British are Coming by Rick Atkinson
2. Redcoat by Bernard Cornwell

MARCH - The War of the Roses : https://www.librarything.com/topic/358941
1. Fatal Colours by George Goodwin
2. The Brothers York : An English Tragedy by Thomas Penn

APRIL - Wars of Religion https://www.librarything.com/topic/359824#n8524265
1. Enter Ghost by Isabella Hammad
2. A History of the Crusades I by Steven Runciman
3. A History of the Crusades II by Steven Runciman
4. A History of the Crusades III by Steven Runciman

MAY - Napoleonic Wars : https://www.librarything.com/topic/360466
1. Napoleon by Alan Forrest

JUNE - English Civil War
JULY - Colonial Wars

AUGUST - WW2
1. When We Were Warriors by Emma Carroll
2. The Storm We Made by Vanessa Chan

SEPTEMBER - American Civil War
OCTOBER - American Follies (Korea, Vietnam, Gulf-War, Afghanistan)
NOVEMBER - WW1
DECEMBER - Spanish Civil War

WILDCARD - Pick your own fight

British Author Challenge (Hosted by my friend Amanda)



JANUARY - Joan Aiken & Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle : Black Hearts in Battersea
FEBRUARY - Emma Newman & Ronald Firbank
MARCH - Welsh Writers : Selected Poems R.S. Thomas; Under Milk Wood
APRIL - Barbara Pym & Anthony Trollope - Quartet in Autumn; The Way We Live Now

American Author Challenge (Hosted with occasional assistance this year by my friend Linda)



JANUARY - Mark Twain
FEBRUARY - Susan Sontag
MARCH - Truman Capote
APRIL - Non-Fiction - The Sweet Science by AJ Liebling
MAY -

150 YEARS OF BOOKS

150 years; 150 books; 150 authors; 15 months

Done:
Row 1 : 1874, 1875, 1887


Row 2 : 1889, 1902


Row 3 : 1904, 1908, 1910, 1915


Row 4 : 1923, 1927


Row 5 : 1936, 1937, 1945


Row 6 : 1951, 1954, 1955 1956, 1958, 1959


Row 7 : 1964, 1966, 1977


Row 8 : 1979, 1987


Row 9 : 1994, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005


Row 10 : 2010, 2011, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2022, 2023

Women's Prize List



Current Ranking
1. Brotherless Night by V.V. Ganeshanathan READ SHORTLIST
2. Western Lane by Chetna Maroo READ
3. Soldier Sailor by Claire Kilroy READ SHORTLIST
4. The Maiden by Kate Foster READ
5. The Wren, The Wren by Anne Enright READ SHORTLIST
6. Enter Ghost by Isabella Hammad READ SHORTLIST

A Trace of Sun by Pam Williams
Ordinary Human Failings by Megan Nolan
Hangman by Maya Binyam
8 Lives of a Century Old Trickster by Mirinae Lee owned
Nightbloom by Peace Adzo Medie owned
In Defence of the Act by Effie Black
Restless Dolly Maunder by Kate Grenville owned SHORTLIST
River East, River West by Aube Rey Lescure owned SHORTLIST
The Blue Beautiful World by Karen Lord owned
And Then She Fell by Alicia Elliott

Up next RIVER EAST, RIVER WEST

Paul's Alternative Women's Prize Longlist

Current Ranking

1. The List of Suspicious Things by Jennie Godfrey READ
2. Loot by Tania James READ
3. Pet by Catherine Chidgey READ
4. Tom Lake by Ann Patchett READ
5. The Storm We Made by Vanessa Chan READ
6. Breakdown by Cathy Sweeney READ

7. Night Wherever We Go by Tracey Rose Peyton owned
8. Julia by Sandra Newman owned
9. Let Us Descend by Jesmyn Ward owned
10. Stone Yard Devotional by Charlotte Wood owned
11. The Middle Daughter by Chika Unigwe owned
12. Absolution by Alice McDermott owned
13. The House of Broken Bricks by Fiona Williams owned
14. The Fraud by Zadie Smith owned
15. Penance by Eliza Clark owned
16. Land of Milk and Honey by E Pam Zhang owned

Next up The House of Broken Bricks

Books Added in 2024

January books 1-31
https://www.librarything.com/topic/357215#8360403

February books 32-73
https://www.librarything.com/topic/358698#8432568

March books 74-104
https://www.librarything.com/topic/359405#8476551

April books 105-130
https://www.librarything.com/topic/360210#8513437

131. Hungry Ghosts by Kevin Jared Hosein
132. Golden Age by Wang Xiaobo
133. The Expendables by Jeff Rubin
134. Napoleon : The Man Behind the Myth by Adam Zamoyski
135. The List of Suspicious Things by Jennie Godfrey READ
136. Mater 2-10 by Hwang Sok-Yong
137. What I'd Rather Not Think About by Jente Posthuma
138. The Pine Islands by Marion Poschmann
139. In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Mate
140. Lost on Me by Veronica Raimo

Book Stats

Books Read : 40
Pages Read in completed books : 11,943 pp

Longest book : The Way We Live Now : 766 pp
Shortest book : Field Work : 56 pp
Mean book length : 298.58 pp

Books written by men : 21
Books written by women : 19

Non-Fiction : 13
Fiction : 21
Poetry : 3
Thriller : 2
Drama : 1

1870's : 1 book
1880's : 1 book
1900's : 1 book
1920's : 1 book
1930's : 1 book
1950's : 7 books
1960's : 1 book
1970's : 2 books
1980's : 1 book
2000's : 5 books
2010's : 7 books
2020's : 12 books

UK Authors : 22
US Authors : 9
Ireland Authors : 4
Sweden Authors : 2
France Authors : 1
Malaysia Authors : 1
New Zealand Authors : 1


Nobel Winners : 1 (79/120)
Carnegie Medal Winners : 1 (6th overall)
1001 Books : 4

Read : 40 books
Added : 135 books

Change to TBR : +96

Welcome to my thirteenth thread of 2024

Oh wow! Happy new thread Paul!

>15 Owltherian: First up, Lily. Thank you.

>16 PaulCranswick: You're welcome Paul.

>17 Owltherian: Second up too. :D

Merry new thread, PC!

>19 richardderus: Thank you, RD. I took your advice and renewed this time before I got stuck into the 300s.

Happy new thread!

Happy New Thread!!! From one Chocolate predator to another!!

Yay, I made it into the first 30!
Happy New Thread my friend.

>21 amanda4242: Thank you, dear Amanda.

>22 hredwards: Hahaha thanks Harold. I'm waiting for Hani to sleep so I can hunt for the stash!

>23 SirThomas: Thanks you dear Thomas.

Happy new thread Paul.

>26 Kristelh: Thank you, Kristel.

I should be able to report some book completions tomorrow.

Paul do you have ways to calm down if your shaking due to stress?

>28 Owltherian: Deep breathing is one, Lily. The other I cannot recommend to you because you are underage and not allowed to drink!

>29 PaulCranswick: My sorry to say this but stupid friends are stressing me out because they are forcing me to do a whole essay (that is now a week late) by myself and i barely have any info and the only reason they put me on that is because that was all that was left for the project and that's not even the thing i wanted to do.

p.s. sorry for ranting a bit

Happy new thread, Mr Domestic Chocolate Predator.

Happy new thread Paul!

I hope you can get your mouth around some of the chocolate!

>30 Owltherian: Rant all you like, Lily, since that is another way of relieving stress!

>31 ArlieS: Hahaha, thank you Arlie.

>32 quondame: Thanks Susan. Thwarted thus far to be honest!

Happy new thread, Paul!

>35 thornton37814: Thank you, Lori. x

>33 PaulCranswick: Thanks Paul.

Anyway im honestly about to drop them because they stress me out so much and I literally can't do a whole essay on my own just because I write stories honestly they should have asked what I wanted to do....instead of forcing me to do something I didn't want to do. Why couldn't i have done at least one of the posters instead of doing a whole essay i don't have information for.

Happy new one!

Happy New Thread!

Happy New Thread

>37 Owltherian: Don't stress yourself overly, Lily.

>38 figsfromthistle: Thank you, Anita.

>39 SilverWolf28: Thanks, Silver

>38 figsfromthistle: Thank you, Kerry.

>41 PaulCranswick: Im trying not too but its hard

>43 Owltherian: That is where the deep breathing comes in.

>44 PaulCranswick: I did that and im still angry at my friends and honestly i think i only have 2 real friends tbh

Happy new thread, Paul! I seem to have missed something about chocolate.

>46 atozgrl: Thanks Irene. In the last thread I described myself as a Domestic Chocolate Predator as Hani / Erni routinely go out of their way to hide any such confections from my view.

Happy new thread, Paul!

>48 FAMeulstee: Thank you, Anita

Happy Thirteenth, Paul! And thanks for tackling the Women's Prize for Fiction list. So far I am underwhelmed with the choices. I like that you have your own Alternate List. Good for you!

Reading The Shelf, a book about a project involving reading every book on a particular shelf in a particular library. I often use the “Folly” feature on my Home Page here to go to the page of a random book of mine and tidy it up, or in this case, continue to the author’s Main Page and see what else he or she has written. Thus I discovered The Shelf: From LEQ to LES: Adventures in Extreme Reading and borrowed it from my public library. This book, written two decades after the book by Phyllis Rose I own and have largely forgotten, is an extension of my own LT games; for example, after reading A Hero of Our Time in Nabokov’s translation she makes thought-provoking comparisons with other translations available. She comments on Edward Gorey’s cover design. She considers the relationship of the author’s (brief) life to the plot of his story. A book by a book-lover for book lovers. Lots of fun. I have ordered my own copy.

>50 Donna828: To be fair I thought a couple of the four shortlisted books were good but I agree with you Donna that it is generally an uninspiring list. Of my alternatives I thought the books by Chidgey and Tania James in particular were wonderful.

>51 booksaplenty1949: That does sound like fun and something to appeal to all of us book lovers!

Happy new thread, Paul!

It looks like I will finish up The Illustrious Dead by Stephen Talty tomorrow so at least I will get one Boney book read this month :)

>53 alcottacre: Well done Juana. I am making good progress with several books but haven't finished any of them yet!

I've given up on reading the long/shortlists for Women's Prize for Fiction. I'll wait to see how they do over time and then get to the better ones.

>55 avatiakh: That is probably a wise course, Kerry. I have amassed a lot of books over the last few years of novels by ladies that it will take me some time to get to!

>47 PaulCranswick: Thanks for explaining, Paul. I fell so far behind on the last thread that I decided to wait for a new one.

>57 atozgrl: No problem, Irene. It is always a pleasure to see you. x

Here's the next readathon: https://www.librarything.com/topic/360644

Happy new thread, Paul. I got distracted for a bit and missed commenting on one of your threads in entirety. I did note the abbreviated stats though and caught the post of you egging Anita (figs) on re the Canadian posting. I think we've all been a bit distracted lately.

Happy New Thread, Paul. I've just started into Soldier Sailor and it didn't grab me in the first pages, but I it has now. Then I have just have River East, River West to get too. I too am a domestic chocolate predator. Though, I made a chocolate cake last night, and Dave ate 1/4 of it before I could ice it. Dave!

>59 SilverWolf28: Thank you, Silver.

>60 Familyhistorian: I feel genuine affection for my Canadian friends in the group, Meg, and I love the fact that there is no monopoly year on year as to who has the most posts. Always lovely to see you here.

>61 vancouverdeb: Yikes sometimes your comments eerily reflect my own views. I found the beginning of Soldier Sailor hard to get into but it got there (or I did).

Dave sounds like my kind of guy!

Good morning Paul! I wont be online much this weekend, since I'm going up to Daton haha.

>64 Owltherian: Do you mean Dayton, Lily? In Ohio?

>65 PaulCranswick: Oml whoops yeah i mean Dayton.

>66 Owltherian: You are from Ohio but I was pretty sure it must have been Dayton.

>67 PaulCranswick: Me and my stepmum are going to her gf's house up there.

>68 Owltherian: Why is she taking you?

>69 booksaplenty1949: Because i want to spend my weekend which is hers with my own family instead of homophobic grandparents.

>68 Owltherian: - >70 Owltherian: Your grandparents are still your own family right? Families are complicated.

Enjoy your weekend.

>71 PaulCranswick: Step grandparents technically and yeah i guess they are still family but its annoying going over there every weekend.

BOOK #39



Napoleon by Alan Forrest
Date of Publication : 2011
Origin of Author : UK
Gender of Author : Male
Pages : 331 pp
Challenges : The War Room

Engaging and well balanced biography of the man whose name is given to a conflict that involved the whole of Europe and beyond for longer than the two World Wars combined.

Napoleon was an intriguing man of genius. Proud and almost as great a propagandist as he was a general. Winner of a series of battles exuding flair and brilliance as well as the stomach for extraordinary slaughter.

He was a man who provided clear messages and lessons for future generations which went largely unheeded. From a seemingly impregnable position of strength at his zenith in about 1807 he overstretched himself in Spain and Russia and this over reach brought about his eventual downfall.

He is a man who divides opinion to this day which says much about his appeal as a subject for biography.

Recommended.

>54 PaulCranswick: Well, I finished it last night, but was disappointed in it by the end.

>73 PaulCranswick: Adding that one to the BlackHole. Thanks for the recommendation!

>73 PaulCranswick: On my WL is goes!

>74 alcottacre: You can't win them all, Stasia. It is a bummer though when long books disappoint.

>75 Tess_W: It is well written, Tess.

>62 PaulCranswick: We tend to be polite rather than competitive, Paul, except for hockey perhaps.

You remind me that I've yet to pull out my Napoleonic read. I think I might pull out An Infamous Army for this month.

>76 PaulCranswick: Are you a person who can abandon a book part-way through? Some people seem to consign books to the DNF pile fairly readily; others persevere no matter what. I have been known to get a few pages in to a book and then realise it’s not something that merits my time, but that’s different.

I finished Soldier Sailor and it was good, but I much prefer Brotherless Night . Just one more book from the Shortlist to read.

Sorry to have been so absent over the weekend. Hani and I had a family reunion get together about an hour and a half outside Kuala Lumpur (in the foothills of Fraser's Hill) and stayed on Saturday at a farm house AirBnb with another couple and relations. No internet but lovely and peaceful.

>77 Familyhistorian: Yes, Meg, I have to say that that is exactly my impression of my Canadian friends and I do feel quite a bond with that group here. xx

>78 booksaplenty1949: I do not like to ever say that I abandon a book. I do fairly often set it aside to revisit another time but I don't abandon them and I also do not count a book as "read" unless I have finished it.
My own "Pearl-rule" would be half of that recommended by the great lady. If I am going to officially DNF something and not intend to revisit it - I will decide that in 25 pages. That is also a rarity.

>79 vancouverdeb: As usual we agree, Deb. I am pretty sure that we would annoy the rest of a book judging panel by the harmony of our views!

Added 2 books this Monday lunchtime (Since I missed out on Friday).

135. The List of Suspicious Things by Jennie Godfrey
136. Mater 2-10 by Hwang Sok-Yong

One shortlisted International Booker & one from my home area of Yorkshire which I have been watching out for.

>83 PaulCranswick: Given your enforced proximity to Hani at the relevant times, I'm astonished you managed some additions at all, PC. Impressive. I just scored the DRC of another Korean's new book, Toward Eternity by the eminent translator from Korean to English Anton Hur. For such a small country, they're on an Anglophone-literary roll.

>84 richardderus: It is true, RD, that Korean authors are much in vogue these days but - knowing so many Koreans myself, I know how difficult it is to render their thoughts adequately into English.

>81 PaulCranswick: I had to research the “Pearl-rule”—-at first I thought the “great lady” must have been the (late) Queen. But found, and enjoyed, Nancy Pearl’s article although I will not wait until I’m 100 to judge a book solely by its cover. Indeed, I have a tag—-“Unread/unreadable”—-for books I bought ONLY for the cover and wouldn’t read on a bet. I do like to finish what I start, and I usually have several books on the go, so if a work is lagging or the plot/characters are annoying me I often take a break and pick up something else. One of the reasons I prefer paper books is the ease with which one can put a bookmark in and subsequently find where one left off.
I rarely read contemporary fiction and pay no attention to reviews—-nowadays written by other novelists in a “you boost my book, I’ll boost yours” arrangement—-so I don’t often start a book without knowing a fair bit about it and why it will be worth my while reading it.

Good afternoon Paul, i have some pictures from my trip to the arboretum in Dayton in my gallery if you would like to see them.

>86 booksaplenty1949: I had never heard of the good lady until I joined this group in truth. She does talk some sense though.

>87 Owltherian: Hi Lily. I will go and have a look.

>88 PaulCranswick: How are you today?

>89 Owltherian: I have a heavy head cold, Lily, so I am a bit grumpy.

>90 PaulCranswick: Ahhhh that must hurt, i have a headache myself.

>90 PaulCranswick: Sorry to hear you are under the weather Paul. Hope you feel better soon.

Feel better Paul!

I hope you're feeling fit soonest!

Happy new thread Paul!

Sorry Paul about feeling so crummy. Hope you are feeling better very soon. xx

About your weekend away....."lovely and peaceful" sounds perfect!

Nancy Pearl "the great lady" has some wonderful books about book. She wrote one about travel, listing books about specific places so you could read up about a place before you go. Book Lust to Go.

>91 Owltherian: Just uncomfortable, Lily.

>97 PaulCranswick: Uncomfortable is also a part of that and i hope you get better!

>92 Caroline_McElwee: Thanks Caroline. I just got up (it is 5.30 am here on Tuesday) and at least I don't feel any worse.

>93 Kristelh: Thank you, Kristel.

>94 quondame: Thank you, Susan. Fit might be pushing it a wee bit!

>95 humouress: Thanks, neighbour.

>96 mdoris: Thanks Mary. I do wonder whether she has herself ever been "Pearl Ruled"?

>98 Owltherian: I'll get better, Lily, I just hope I am not too long about it!

>101 PaulCranswick: I hope not either!

>102 Owltherian: Two coffees in this morning and I can take on the world already.

>83 PaulCranswick: The List of Suspicious Things was a 5 star read for me, Paul. I reviewed it on my previous thread. I hope you enjoy it too. Good choice.

>104 vancouverdeb: I of course saw that, Deb, and it is one of the reasons that it was so high on my "hitlist". I have started it immediately.

Two more additions this lunchtime:

137. What I'd Rather Not Think About by Jente Posthuma
138. The Pine Islands by Marion Poschmann

*sigh* good morning Paul, i hope you have gotten better, i know i haven't my headache i think got worse from last night and i even took meds to help.

>76 PaulCranswick: Luckily the book was not that long - a little over 300 pages.

>79 vancouverdeb: I broke down and ordered Brotherless Night since it was the book on the shortlist I was most interested in reading. It is coming from Blackwell's so it may be a bit before I actually get my hands on it.

>80 PaulCranswick: Wonderful! I am happy that you were able to get away for a bit.

>83 PaulCranswick: >106 PaulCranswick: (Since I missed out on Friday) Any excuse will do, right?

Happy whatever, Juan!

>107 Owltherian: Morning, Lily, I am also taking medication but still the headcold persists.

>108 alcottacre: Lovely to see you, Juana. I am sure that you will enjoy Brotherless Night.

>109 PaulCranswick: Ah, well i hope you get better and that headcold stops.

>106 PaulCranswick: The Pine Islands sounds intriguing. You always manage to find some interesting books in KL. The bookshops I have to use are really basic and only good for finding recently published and popular.

Hope you are feeling better.

>1 PaulCranswick: Happy new thread!

Hope you are on the mend, Paul

>110 Owltherian: Nope, Lily, not really recovered but I can probably see a distant light at the end of a long tunnel.

>111 avatiakh: It was shortlisted for the Man International Booker Prize in 2019 at a time when I wasn't much looking at that prize. Does look an intriguing little book and I managed to get it in hardback.

>112 ocgreg34: Thank you, Greg. Lovely to see you my friend.

>113 figsfromthistle: Slowly but surely, Anita. Trying my best not to make Hani ill at the same time as that would have very negative repercussions for our small household!

I have dropped onto The List of Suspicious Things by Jennie Godfrey which I bought earlier in the week and which I have been looking out for.

It was in the historical fiction section which makes me feel old as I was in my early teens when Mrs Thatcher came to power in the UK. It is set in a so far unnamed West Yorkshire town and amid the hysteria of the Yorkshire Ripper prowling the streets. It evokes my own childhood and is very, very well done.

I saw that Deb was enthusiastic about it and frankly I am loving it!

>116 PaulCranswick: I have just added this to my TBR pile and I think I may start it soon.

>116 PaulCranswick: I did love The List of Suspicious Things , Paul, and I am glad you are too . I guess maybe you remember the Yorkshire Ripper? I was around then too , but here in Vancouver, I don’t recall hearing about that . It’s a great tale. . Enjoy , and you too , Kerry .

Happy whatever, Paul!

I am jealous of everyone who is getting to read the shortlist. Maybe I will get to them all one of these days, lol.

I go through a cycle each spring with my allergies. I wake up with a sinus headache about every other day and sniffles also make the rotation. Today I have both. Hoping the headache will go away on its own, but I may need to take something. I'm giving it another hour before taking any thing. I don't like to overmedicate.

>117 CDVicarage: It is a really good read, Kerry.

>118 vancouverdeb: Indeed Deb. I can well remember the terror in the community of this guy killing ladies indiscriminately.

>119 alcottacre: Plenty of shortlists to read, Stasia. Do you mean the Women's Prize or the International Booker?

>120 thornton37814: Headaches and headcolds are the worst, Lori. Hope that you are ok. xx

Hi Paul--I think I am about 4 threads behind, but I am here!! Glad you had a nice family meetup and I hope you feel better soon. Loving your thread toppers. : )

Hiya Paul, i hope you feel better again! Sadly i have 5-6 days left being on this site (possibly) if i have to give my school computer for the summer.

>116 PaulCranswick: I found it a very disconcerting thing the first time I picked up a book recording events in my lifetime as historical Paul. Noted this one.

>116 PaulCranswick: It's so weird to encounter historical fiction set in places and times one personally lived through - or even places and times that were living memory in one's childhood.

There are plenty of times and places about which I read only slightly dated contemporary-or-slightly-retrospective-fiction in my youth; I wonder how those books are categorized, if they are still read? (Consider, for example Nevil Shute's novels.)

>120 thornton37814: Ugh. Sympathy from a fellow sufferer.

>123 Berly: Lovely to see you, Kimmers. x

>124 Owltherian: Finally feeling a bit better, Lily, thank you.

>125 Caroline_McElwee: I thought it odd, Caroline, but I suppose the events are 45 years ago already.

>126 ArlieS: I can only speak for myself in that I still enjoy reading Nevil Shute and he shows little sign of going out of print any time soon.

>122 PaulCranswick: Both, of course. If I am going to be greedy, I am going to be very greedy.

>122 PaulCranswick: Hahaha a lady after my own heart!

>127 PaulCranswick: Thats great!

>131 Owltherian: Now trying to catch up with work!

>132 PaulCranswick: Hah, i would bet!

>133 Owltherian: I had a meeting with the Employer's Representative this morning complaining about the performance and attitude of one of our key subcontractors; it wasn't a hugely friendly meeting because I was well prepared to put the subcontractors side of the story.

>134 PaulCranswick: I would think it wouldnt be so friendly if it was something like that.

>135 Owltherian: My job is interesting Lily, because I am literally arguing about tens of millions of dollars on a daily basis.

>136 PaulCranswick: Wow thats crazy

The project is over US1 billion (and would probably cost 5 times more in the US). It has 118 storeys and stands at 678.9 metres tall which is the second tallest building currently in the world.

What an impressive picture!

>138 PaulCranswick: Always wowed when you post about this project.

>238 PaulCranswick: Amazing Paul.

It’s an impressive building but I hate heights and would want nothing to do with it.

>139 SirThomas: Thanks Thomas. I see it everyday from very close up!

>140 avatiakh: I must admit to being rather proud of the project, Kerry.

>141 Caroline_McElwee: Thanks Caroline. x

>142 Kristelh: I am office bound, Kristel. I am not scared of heights but it is an awful trek to get to the very top up inside the spire. Sometimes, even though it is less exciting sometimes being in charge of contracts and commercial issues with the Client is a much less rigorous position to be in!

>142 Kristelh: I am with you on that, Kristel. I tell everyone that God made me 5' 2" because He knew that I was going to be afraid of heights.

Happy whatever, Paul!

>145 alcottacre:, that is exactly my height, 5’2”. I like being close to the ground.

>145 alcottacre: I am happy to join the shorties club being 5 ft 5 1/2 ins myself.

Happy Thursday, Stasia.

>146 Kristelh: Et tu, Kristel!?

>146 Kristelh: Yep, close to the ground is good.

>147 PaulCranswick: I always knew that you were my brother from another mother. Us shorties need to stick together!

Thanks, Paul.

>138 PaulCranswick: It looks amazing. Think I would prefer to admire it from the ground, or perhaps flying past, but people probably said that about the first house with a second storey. I recall, on my first trip to England, hearing deprecating comments about central heating. Embracing the new is never congenial for most of us. Fortunately, not for all of us.

>148 alcottacre: Of course we will always be bosom buddies in this group, Stasia!

>149 booksaplenty1949: Wise thoughts.
We are moving from the 9th to the 26th floor in my building (into an identical unit) and I was thinking today that we will spend far longer in the elevator than previously!

>138 PaulCranswick: Love the pictures of this.
After you last posted I scoped out a couple of youtube videos on the project.
Very interesting!!

>138 PaulCranswick: Easy to see the attraction for men, here and in Doha.

>150 PaulCranswick: Elevators are an endless source of anxiety to me...not because they might fall (very rare) but because they squish you in with *shudder* people and their diseases and telephones...but I repeat myself. Yuck.

>153 richardderus: ... and then someone coughs ... but you've forgotten your mask ... and there are another 52 floors to go ... don't breathe, don't breathe ...

>145 alcottacre: >146 Kristelh: >147 PaulCranswick: Well, you're all taller than I am. Other people in my family have issues with heights but for me after a certain point, I lose the perspective and it just becomes a flat, moving picture.

>151 hredwards: Thank you, Harold. The YouTube videos are really good. I am pleased to report that I am not in any of them!

>152 m.belljackson: Huh? Why is it an attraction for men? What is the reference to Doha about, Marianne?

>153 richardderus: I would agree that I don't like being cooped up in an elevator. As I understand it our office lifts on the project are amongst the fastest in the world. My home condo lifts are not so quick but you would enjoy them much more as they are programmed to be private lifts.

>154 humouress: My twin has a good 5 inches height advantage on me but I must admit that it doesn't overly bother me.

>155 PaulCranswick: Ummm...shapes?

>157 m.belljackson: Are you saying the building has a phallic presence? Why Qatar?

>158 PaulCranswick: ISLAMIC EMPIRES shows Doha Tower. It ain't just me, babe...

>159 m.belljackson: I don't know the book, Marianne, and I am sorry but I don't really get the point that you are making? Maybe it is a little early here as I am up listening on the radio to my beloved team cruising into the Championship Playoff final at Wembley.

Also some good family news.

Kyran who is awaiting his results from his University degree at London's Birkbeck College (the University of Hobsbawm and where TS Eliot taught), had his first day as a supply teacher at a Comprehensive school in Wembley.

>161 PaulCranswick: Good news indeed for Kyran!

Yay for Kyran! I hope he get the results he wants.

>162 richardderus: Thanks RD. I'm really proud of him in the sense of how he reset himself following his distaste for legal studies.

>163 quondame: Thank you Susan. He called me yesterday when he was on his way home on the Tube.

>161 PaulCranswick: Hurray for Kyran!

What does that mean supply teacher? I hope he likes the job, and it works out for him. So good to have some good experiences when one is starting out.

Why are you moving to a higher floor?

>165 EllaTim: Lovely to see you Ella. Supply teachers are temporary replacement teachers in the event that someone may be sick or is on extended leave for any reason.

>166 dianeham: Well the main reason, Diane, is that the owner of our present home wants to take it back and try to sell it. The unit is identical to our current one only with better piping because we had it replaced before handover.

>161 PaulCranswick: And lived to tell the tale? We were pretty hard on supply teachers in my day. The successful ones had energy and the self-confidence to sell themselves to a tough crowd. Great assets in any walk of life.

>167 PaulCranswick: Supply teachers are temporary replacement teachers in the event that someone may be sick or is on extended leave for any reason.

In the US we call them substitute teachers.

Congrats to Kyran.

Here's the next readathon: https://www.librarything.com/topic/360905

>168 booksaplenty1949: He is a fairly self confident young fellow.

>169 amanda4242: Exactly right, Amanda

>170 SilverWolf28: Thank you, Silver.

>161 PaulCranswick: This is really good news - have a wonderful weekend, my friend.

>161 PaulCranswick: Well done to Kyran Paul. Jacob is planning on teaching as well, assuming that his placement with Teach First is somewhere sensible. He should here by the end of the month.

>173 SirThomas: Thank you, Thomas.

>174 SandDune: Kyran is also applying for civil service positions but so far no luck. I think he prefers academia but sees teaching as a good alternative.

I just want to say a very big thank you to everyone who has visited here and posted in 2024. Just to record that the post count on my threads this year has passed 4,000.

I didn't reach 4,000 posts last year until the middle of August.

The atmosphere at my football club was special yesterday. My brother who doesn't miss a home game said it was the best he has ever seen.

My beloved Leeds United go to Wembley after despatching Norwich 4-0.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iQuX-LAzUJs

Additions this lunchtime:

139. In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Mate
140. Lost on Me by Veronica Raimo

>155 PaulCranswick: I was watching, hoping to catch a glimpse of you too!!

I still have to catch up on all the posts in this thread, but I noticed that you had Black Hearts in Battersea on your list. I loved that book, and I have the trilogy somewhere in a box :/.

I'm still plowing through Hornblower, and, yes, there are parts I skim a bit, because they bother me on a level that has little to do with the book itself. So far, so good.

I noticed that you read widely, so I wanted to ask -- have you read any Georgette Heyer? While she's mostly known as the "creator" of the Regency Romance, she was also a mystery writer, and a meticulous researcher of the periods in which she set her novels. I have two I've been holding off reading, because both are set deeply in the Napoleonic Wars, An Infamous Army and The Spanish Bride. One of my favorites, A Civil Contract, features a major plot twist concerning Exchange investments during the Battle of Waterloo, and The Toll-Gate and The Unknown Ajax are about soldiers returned after the wars getting involved in various mysteries -- one with theft of the New Money introduced at the time, and the other with rum-smugglers.

From Wikipedia

Determined to make her novels as accurate as possible, Heyer collected reference works and research materials to use while writing.38 At the time of her death she owned more than 1,000 historical reference books, including Debrett's and an 1808 dictionary of the House of Lords. In addition to the standard historical works about the medieval and eighteenth-century periods, her library included histories of snuff boxes, sign posts and costumes. She often clipped illustrations from magazine articles and jotted down interesting vocabulary or facts onto note cards but rarely recorded where she found the information. Her notes were sorted into categories, such as Beauty, Colours, Dress, Hats, Household, Prices and Shops, and even included details such as the cost of candles in a particular year. Other notebooks contained lists of phrases, covering such topics as "Food and Crockery", "Endearments", and "Forms of Address." One of her publishers, Max Reinhardt, once attempted to offer editorial suggestions about the language in one of her books but was promptly informed by a member of his staff that no one in England knew more about Regency language than Heyer.

>181 Murphy-Jacobs: There are many Georgette Heyer readers in this group! I spent 30 years doing regency recreation events with a group that started with a handfull of her fans.

>182 quondame: Excellent! I'm a huge fan of Jane Austen, of course, which led to Heyer. And, of course, Mary Robinette Kowal for her Regency Fantasy Glamourist series :) I have a near fatal weakness for Austen "spin-off" novels, although so many aren't that good, and I haven't been able to get much interested in Bridgerton.

>183 Murphy-Jacobs: Yes, Jane Austen. My favorite non-Heyer modern Regency is still Sorcery and Cecelia, fantasy really, but so much fun. Recently I've liked the two by Sophie Irwin.

>184 quondame: Yup, love those :) Haven't read anything by Sophie Irwin. I looked her up and will see about it.

>180 hredwards: It is funny, Harold, because these sorts of videos will avoid showing the contractor most of the time as the Employer tends to pretend that they built it themselves!

>181 Murphy-Jacobs: I have to admit to my discredit that I have never read anything by Georgette Heyer yet, although I do have five of her books upon my shelves.

>182 quondame: Yes, Susan, I am aware that she does have a number of devotees in the group and I really ought to get to reading her soon - it is a pretty glaring omission thus far!

>183 Murphy-Jacobs: Ah, now of course Jane Austen has been read, My favourite of hers is rather unusually Northanger Abbey.

>184 quondame: I would have thought you would have been the happiest at that created juncture where Regency meets Fantasy!

>185 Murphy-Jacobs: Isn't it great how we are all able to share recommendations - even though the genre isn't quite my thing I know that I will be looking up and looking for Sophie Irwin too!

>188 PaulCranswick: I try not to confine myself to particular kinds of reading, at least not until I know it isn't for me. Book Riot puts out a reading challenge each year called Read Harder which I use to stretch out my reading horizons. It's hard, though, mostly because SHINY NEW BOOKS keep dropping in my way. :) But judging by my husband, I think you might find a title or two to enjoy in Heyer's milieu.

My favorite Austen is Persuasion, which I reread every year or more. I have an audio version read by Greta Scacchi which I really enjoy. I haven't enjoyed many of the "Mash Ups" that came out -- I have a very long screed about Pride & Prejudice & Zombies because I am STILL angry about that one, and Sense & Sensibility & Seamonsters was even worse, but I don't know if I screamed and ranted quite as much. However, I still have the other "mash-ups" on my to read list because I'm stupid :). The Best one of those I've come across -- for those who can appreciate a laugh and a good story -- is Jane Slayre, which I've read probably 4 times now.

>189 Murphy-Jacobs: I think it is something that I am grateful to this group for, Sherri, in that it has definitely opened wider my reading horizons. I realised that a decade ago my reading was 85% books written by men - now it is almost even stevens.

I am possibly the most guilty in the group for craven book additions and I can certainly appreciate the quandary of books that keep appearing somehow in the house!

>188 PaulCranswick: Hmm, happiest. I've enjoyed a fair number of F&SF that have admitted a regency ancestry, but I think I prefer the straight forms.
Mansfield Park, Pride & Prejudice, Emma, and Persuasion rank pretty nearly equal for me, depending on mood, and I fond of Sense and Sensibility as well. There are so many F&SF that are dear to me that don't give the nod to Regency in particular, though many have other historic influences. Of course right now I'm totally engrossed in The Nine World which has one series is open about its Regency heritage, as long as you mix in Scarlet Pimpernel.

>189 Murphy-Jacobs: The flat out best Austen adaptions I've read have been fan fiction. One has Lizzy Bennet trading barbs with Wellington and another has her as an Olympic Ice Dancer. The same author did a Figure Skater Japanese-Canadian Lizzy Bennet. There have been a handful of published modern reworkings of P&P that have been worth reading, but not anywhere near as delightful.

>177 PaulCranswick: My goodness. No wonder I have not been able to keep up with your threads this year, Paul. And I thought you were planning to post less this year.

>190 PaulCranswick: I understand the book addiction! I get caught on things I don't even understand why. I'll be all in on some obscure thing or other, and then I'm done and there's something else I JUST HAVE TO READ ALL OF! Sometimes it's all danmei light novels. Sometimes it's 18th century British fiction. I've read Mysteries of Udolpho twice -- the first time was just to count the fainting fits (can you guess what book inspired me to do that? :) ) and the second time for fun, because MOUNTAIN PIRATES!

>191 quondame: At some point I will have to list my assorted Austen "sequels" and spin offs and such, so we can contrast and compare :). They are all currently in a box awaiting the building of new shelves. I do have nearby a new book with Lydia Bennet as a Witch, and one from Mrs. Bennet's point of view which I'm planning to get into at some point this summer.

>193 Murphy-Jacobs: You're rather more hardy about 18th cent. literature than I am. I have trouble with 19th. except for JA. I want to line the whole 19th cent up against the wall.
I'm reveling in 21st century F&SF which is trying out comedy of manners when gender and partner gender is optional, or a choice, or not relevant at all. Unless it is. And where does AI fit in all this.

I haven't had to pack up for decades. Hate it. Of course I have books on all sorts of surfaces, the floor included...

>195 quondame: Well, I haven't managed to make my way through some particular examples from that time like Eliza Haywood -- I made an attempt at Love in Excess and could not keep characters straight. I didn't feel like making a score card, so I surrendered. But at some point I want to read Pamela just to see what all the fuss was about. They are the books Austen could have and likely did read, so I'm curious.

My more usual reading is in the SF realm or, so help me, urban fantasy. I like a detective story with some magic in it, although one with a sword and an elf will do ;)

>191 quondame: I think that Sense and Sensibility is a bit behind her other novels for me, but she does have a pretty high bar!

>192 atozgrl: I did set out with that intention, Irene. January I was much more steady than normal but I am already three months ahead of my posting numbers from last year. I have been less indiscriminate in posting to other threads this year and certain of our friends who never post here likewise don't have to suffer my visits there!

>193 Murphy-Jacobs: Surely this interest came about because of Ms Musgrove in Persuasion?

>194 Murphy-Jacobs: That would be an interesting sub-genre to list, Sherri.

>195 quondame: Including the French, Susan? I adore the novels of Balzac, Hugo, Maupassant and Zola.

Some of Dickens I like quite a bit too and Tolstoy and Dostoevsky should surely be on most shelves - even if only to draw comment!

>196 Murphy-Jacobs: I need to read more from before the nineteenth century too and may look at choosing 12 novels to do just that next year.

Hiya Paul! Sadly I don't have that much longer till I possibly have to leave LT for the summer (unless I use a comp at the library)

>200 Owltherian: That would be really sad, if you don't have internet access at all. On the occasions that you are able to get online, please do keep in touch.

Posting Statistics Update .

All those threads with more than 50 posts as of just now (doesn't count my last three or so posts).

1 PaulCranswick 4029
2 richardderus 2907
3 msf59 2289
4 katiekrug 1882
5 Alcottacre 1276
6 lauralkeet 1126
7 karenmarie 1112
8 klobrien 1097
9 Berly 1059
10 EBT 1055
11 scaifea 1051
12 FAMeulstee 1049
13 jnwelch 970
14 Familyhistorian 929
15 bell7 902
16 vancouverdeb 886
17 figsfromthistle 830
18 BLBera 752
19 The_Hibernator 612
20 drneutron 575
21 Whisper1 560
22 Curioussquared 555
23 owltherian 525
24 mahsdad 520
25 jessibud 519
26 LizzieD 505
27 streamsong 495
28 foggidawn 477
29 (Sir)Thomas 472
30 atozgirl 444
31 quondame 422
32 RebaRelishesReading 420
33 storeetller 418
34 kristel 406
35 Caroline_McElwee 405
36 SandDune 397
37 dianeham 374
38 mickyfine 371
39 norabelle414 367
40 humouress 348
41 mdoris 316
42 weird_o 312
43 donna 311
44 ursula 297
45 avatiakh 286
46 mstrust 283
47 John Simpson 269
48 carmenere 264
49 copperskye 260
50 Tess_W 249
51 Banjo 246
52 thornton37814 241
53 laytonwoman3rd 230
54 cbl_tn 220
55 AMQS 215
56 ronireads 213
57 Arlie 210
58 Elorin 207
59 SqueakyChu 195
60 Lovinglit 189
61 witchyrichy 182
62 ffortsa 169
63 EllaTim 168
64 ravenwoodwitch 149
65 ChrisG 148
66 fuzzi 146
67 hredwards 127
68 SuzyQOregon 123
69 chelle 121
70 WhiteRaven.17 121
71 ctpress 116
72 Oberon 114
73 CDVicarage 104
74 sibylline 103
75 lyzard 101
76 lycomayflower 98
77 swynn 96
78 justchris 90
79 kac522 88
80 amanda4242 86
81 LyndainOregon 86
82 lindapanzo 83
83 catseyegreen 79
84 Cecileturtle 79
85 PlatinumWarlock 77
86 tiffin 77
87 vivians 77
88 meanderer 74
89 PawsForThought 74
90 walklover 73
91 Rbeffa 69
92 VerixSilvercrow 68
93 paulstalder 67
94 lkernagh 66
95 alsvidur 63
96 torontoc 63
97 magician's nephew 59
98 Matke 57
99 aktakukac 53
100 reneemarie 53
101 Librarylover23 51
102 Murphy-Jacobs 51
103 DianaNL 50
104 silverwolf 50

>199 PaulCranswick: Well it did include Madame Bovary, but I am still able to read Dumas. I think I've read Maupassant, but not Hugo or Balzac. Camus and Sartre were more what I was steered toward.
After finishing War and Peace, I haven't felt any further need for Russian authors.
I find some Dickens enjoyable when I'm in a rare mood and went through all sorts of adventure tales in my teens and some later.

>201 PaulCranswick: I will try my best! Plus i can see if i can use my grandparents computer while over there.

>202 PaulCranswick: Wowwww i came in 23rd! Im glad to be that high on a list :)

Top Five in Residency terms in posts to their threads:

Top Five US Residents

1. Richard
2. Mark
3. Katie
4. Stasia
5. Laura

Top Five Canadian Residents

1. Meg
2. Deb
3. Anita
4. Shelley
5. Micky

Top Five Asia Pacific

1. Paul
2. Nina
3. Kerry
4. Megan
5. Liz

Top Five UK

1. Caroline
2. Rhian
3. John
4. Kerry
5. Tony

Top Five European

1. Anita
2. Thomas
3. Ursula
4. Ella
5. Carsten

Top Five Ladies

1. Katie
2. Stasia
3. Laura
4. Karen (Karenmarie)
5. Karen (Karen O)

Top Five Males

1. Paul
2. Richard
3. Mark
4. Joe
5. Jim

>203 quondame: I do very much enjoy Camus and Sartre's WW2 trilogy was tremendous. Flaubert has never really been my thing to be honest.

>204 Owltherian: I'm sure that you'll get opportunities.

>205 Owltherian: That is tremendous considering that you started so late.

>198 PaulCranswick: Hah! You know perfectly well it was the advice given to Catherine in Northanger Abbey!

I have yet to make it through any Dickens other than A Christmas Carol. I've been making runs at Bleak House for years and just cannot manage to get far. I spend too much of my time thinking "just get to the damned point already!". I've read a little Fanny Burney -- Evalina -- and have others I want to finish. Yet more bookmarks, ya know, but that particular set of books are in a box. Most of my library has been in boxes for the last 16 years, and I'm only slowly getting books out now that we have a house where we can build a library, but my husband insisted on building the shelves himself (4 years ago) and so, it's very s l o w.

>208 PaulCranswick: Haha yep!

>207 PaulCranswick: I would sure hope so

>209 Murphy-Jacobs: It is early in the morning here Sherri and I am not thinking too straight, haha!

I don't know why but, considering that Bleak House is one of Chuckles' most lauded works, I have a similar blindspot with it. I must get back to it myself and have another go.

>210 Owltherian: Really, Lily, I think you can find some of the support you need in terms of places to vent and for understanding in this group. I think the people here, almost without exception, are wonderfully sensitive and supportive and genuinely care for each other's well being.

>212 PaulCranswick: I like being in groups like that where they can help each other with things, and give ideas on things. Of course, i will be doing some reading so i will try and write down all the books i read over the long summer.

>209 Murphy-Jacobs: >211 PaulCranswick: Bleak House is one I did read, on the advice of a friend who was acting as our lawyer - he is a lawyer. But I've read other Dickens happily enough, though not so recently. I got through Nicholas Nickelby and was lucky to see the really long play version twice live. But I haven't avoided the 19th century entirely: Scott, Brontex2, Robert Louis Stevenson, Twain, are some I've read. It's just that there's so much fun stuff this century that doesn't make me cringe because of gender bias or out and out racism.

>213 Owltherian: When I was a student, Lily, I adored the long summers and - it is funny when thinking back to how changeable we know the British weather can be, I can only remember the warm, luxuriant summer days with hardly a blemish of rain.
In those long lazy days, I fell in love with my books -
Firstly the famous five books
Secondly the childrens classics
Third the Target Doctor Who serializations
Fourthly thrillers by MacLean, Innes and Dame Agatha
Fifthly and probably most importantly being given access to my Headmaster's personal library and him introducing me to such wonderful books as Lord of the Rings, David Copperfield, Tess of the D'Urbervilles and others.

I was lucky to have a number of excellent guiding hands with my reading - my Grandmother who always had a book, a whiskey and a steaming pot of tea at hand and whose wonderful storytelling has stamped me for life.
My English and History teacher, Mrs Jennison who left me with a profound love of history and the great works of fiction (and incidentally eventually Steinbeck and Hemingway).
My Headmaster, Mr Lindley, whose stern exterior masked a heart of pure gold and whose encouragement that the arts were just as worthy as the sciences dictated my approach to most things. He also was the first to recognize and encourage my earliest attempts at poetry.

>214 quondame: I get that but the storytelling in much of the "earlier" fiction was largely - though not always - on a different level. By the modernising processes they were documenting, we became what we are today - although I hesitate to be so confirmatory with some of the blatant anti-semitic nonsense I see most days.

Dear Friend:

While I am not able to participate in the War Room readings, you are doing an incredible job in pulling this all together. Congratulations for a continuing job well done!

>215 PaulCranswick: My grandparents arnt the storytelling type, that's my parents whom have the stories. I think the first book i fell in love with were horror books.

I've spent some time browsing here, Paul, and I mostly want to congratulate Kyran for getting into teaching. I hope that he likes it well enough to keep on, but if not, he'll still learn a lot that will serve him well whatever he decides to do.
I couldn't get straight whether you're moving. I feel as though you just got settled where you are.
I love and adore Bleak House. I guess you either adore Dickens's prose or you hate it. I'm a lover.
Congratulations to you on that building! 118 storeys!!!!!!! My tiny mind can't begin to grasp that. Our tallest building is 6! Wow!

>216 PaulCranswick: I'm not convinced that the 19th century authors were better story tellers. We have the distillation of the best, so yes on average there are more good, well told, stories in what is still being published and taught and most importantly, read. The 20th cent lost a lot because novels about white, academic, middle aged men became a sort of grail, but still produced amazing books, they, especially late 20th cent. just haven't had 100 years of percolating up and being revisited.

The currently published 19th century books also have the advantage of being the earliest embodiment of story elements told in a way and with values, familiar to us, Daniel Defoe being one of exceptions from the 18th century. Not that pre-1900 works are incomprehensible, but style is a big issue and they often take a lot more work than 19th century books.

Thanks for the stats, Paul. Interesting to see that I'm still doing okay although I have been neglecting LT a lot lately.

Thank you for the statistics from me as well, Paul.
It is always a pleasure to see them. Have a wonderfull weekend!

>202 PaulCranswick: It's good to see that I am maintaining my position, even if it's down in the lower half!

>220 quondame: Of course we are reading the cream of the crop when it comes to 19thC literature. For every Dickens and Bronte there are scores of formerly best-selling authors of whom we’ve never heard. The same is true of the 20thC. Look over the annual lists of, say, NYT best-sellers for the last hundred years and see how many books, or even authors, are still in print. Contemporary fiction can meet readers’ needs in many extra-literary ways—-familiar events, cultural references, the “feel” of a place we know well or think we’d like to, relationship issues we are facing. Fifty years from now these will be no more resonant than advice on how to discreetly straighten the seam in your stocking unless the writer has literary gifts that give his or her story enduring significance.

Happy to be a statistic!

>211 PaulCranswick: Bleak House has the disadvantage of a female first-person narrator. Not normally a disadvantage, of course, but Dickens doesn’t do very well with “nice” middle-class women. He can do eccentrics memorably, but Dora and Agnes and Kate Nickleby and their ilk are passive and boring. He clearly has no idea of their interior life beyond conformity to feminine stereotypes of self-effacement and subordination. Esther Summerson is no exception to this problem. I have read every Dickens novel at least twice and I would put Bleak House near the bottom of my list. I found the 2005 BBC mini-series of Bleak House, which of course avoids the problem of being told from Esther’s POV, much more enjoyable than the book.

>220 quondame: There are definitely examples ( Tristram Shandy, Wuthering Heights) of books which were critical failures at the time but are now regarded as classics but generally those which survive do not “percolate up” and “get revisited” but are in fact continuously in print. The exceptions are generally stylistic outliers whose techniques subsequently become more mainstream and more widely appreciated.

https://www.lapl.org/collections-resources/blogs/lapl/what-novels-were-we-readin... I’ve actually read one—-Pollyanna. Never even heard of the rest.

> 224 >227 booksaplenty1949: My expressions of what I meant seem to awake disagreement where there isn't much, if any. The books from the 18th and 19th century that we still read were very likely the best, though I'd guess there are a few gems by lesser known authors that didn't make it.

The reasons for keeping books in print through the 20th century are somewhat skewed by academia and concepts of what should be taught, rather than purely what people choose to read. And even in the best 19th books I've read, I want to put the century up against the wall. Jane Austen always the exception.

>189 Murphy-Jacobs: Something like Read Harder looks tempting in abstract - and it would be nice to broaden my reading - but what I really want is suggestions not too far away from what I know I like.

When I look at the specifics of something like Read Harder, I always recoil. E.g. this year's #3. "Read a middle grade horror novel." I already know that I don't like horror, and making it a middle school book somehow makes the prospect worse. And I'm enough OCD that the idea of just doing part of the challenge feels like cheating.

Just checking in on you, Paul. Huge congratulations to my 'honorary nephew,' Kyran!

I did post the few books in this week on the 'This Just In' thread - only one book for my personal library and the rest came from the public library, Juan.

I hope you have a wonderful weekend!

>217 Whisper1: Thank you for that, dear Linda. A lovely surprise to have you drop by. xx

>218 Owltherian: Having Irish and Northern English roots I suppose I come from a storytelling tradition.

>219 LizzieD: We have decided, Peggy, that even when we do move back to the UK we will keep a place on in Malaysia as transporting my books and Hani's clothes would outweigh the expense of doing so!
I have a close friend, an Algerian called Dr. Hochine who is something of a spiritual guide for me and who taught my children - it was lovely listening to Kyran talk to him yesterday as Kyran had called me whilst Hochine and I were having a coffee together.
Lovely to see you, Peggy.

>220 quondame: I can sort of get your point, Susan, but I do think that the 20th century drew from much more than merely white male soul searching. The two World Wars, Vietnam and Korea (to a lesser extent) had a profound influence on literature, as did decolonisation, the Holocaust, female "liberation" and race relations.
One thing about contemporary fiction, if we agree that that is 21st century literature is that it is more representative.

>221 Familyhistorian: You will always do well in the stats, Meg, and your numbers remain consistent.

>222 SirThomas: I may be mistaken Thomas but I think 2nd European resident is probably the highest you have been which, for me, is deserved recognition for such a kind and generous man.

>223 CDVicarage: You are always much higher in the books read table, Kerry. Lovely to see you my friend.

>224 booksaplenty1949: Yes it is true that the work that has survived in print is that which was regarded as the best of its day. There is of course also the fact that authorship was not as open to the populace at large as it is today.

>233 PaulCranswick: I know very well that 20th novels range far and wide from that archetype, but it was central and much lauded for decades. And the basic rant that being an adult is hard, and sucks a lot of the time and for sure isn't what you were looking forward to, well, where really does that get anyone?

>225 Kristelh: Friend first....statistic second!

>226 booksaplenty1949: That is a very interesting point and certainly Chuckles is not always great with his idealized female characters. I am determined to read Bleak House in 2024.

>227 booksaplenty1949: Certainly there is much to admire in the often bawdy and picaresque novels of the Georgian period but it is a fictional era that I am nowhere near well read enough in. I do find it interesting when I ponder upon all that survives for posterity - not all of it is great IMHO.

>228 booksaplenty1949: I must go and check that out thanks!

ETA I have actually read The Great Impersonation by E. Philips Oppenheim and I am not entirely surprised it is little known today, despite being mildly diverting.

Congratulations to Kyran on his new job as a supply teacher. In Canada, we used to call them substitute teachers when I was younger, and the term supply teacher is also used, but mainly you are a " TOC" or Teacher on Call. I think most teachers start out as supply teachers, or whatever we want to call them, or I know my DIL did , as did several of my friends.

>229 quondame: Some good points, Susan, and at the end of the day the publishers of the day also had a huge influence upon what we read as did those who marketed the books and reviewed them.
We will not agree about the 19th century as I do think it was endowed with some tremendous literature of a breadth, scope and quality that still leaves its mark today.

>230 ArlieS: Arlie, your comments made me smile as I have often read what our peers have enjoyed and pondered and pondered and pondered some more about whether it is something I would like or not. The group has helped me broaden my reading horizons a great deal but there are still some places I probably will not venture to!

>231 alcottacre: Thank you Juana. I will go off and peruse the Just-in thread very shortly.

Have a lovely weekend too, Sis.

>236 quondame: It is a sub genre that never resonated with me, Susan, either. I don't think it ever amounted to more than that though although probably over represented especially on the Eastern Seaboard of the US.

>239 vancouverdeb: Thanks Deb. I am proud of the man he is becoming - articulate, gentle, kind-hearted, opinionated and wise beyond his years. He is the one I can discuss the world and some of the books in it with these days.

>235 PaulCranswick: I would rephrase your point as “that which *is* regarded as the best of its day.” Many works are highly regarded when they first appear but do not survive the test of time. As for the availability of authorship, of course literacy is a must and that was by no means universal until the 20thC, but women authors are very well-represented in the 19thC canon. Of course they were also a disproportionate part of the audience for fiction—-perhaps that is still the case.

>236 quondame: Guess we can cross Hamlet, Crime and Punishment, and The Catcher in the Rye off the list of books worth our time.

>238 PaulCranswick: I love the description featured on the main page. Sort of sounds self-parodic.

>243 booksaplenty1949: To be fair my observations are not based on rigorous study!
I agree and certainly if this group is anything to go by, female readership is in the majority.

>244 booksaplenty1949: Hahaha that is an interesting trio to choose! I must admit that the latter named left me pretty cold in truth.

>245 booksaplenty1949: Yes, it was an interesting feature. Zane Grey and Pollyanna I was, of course familiar with too but some of the stuff I would need to look up as I hadn't heard of the books at all.

>240 PaulCranswick: I have to say that certain genres (fantasy, romance novels, sci-fi) are no-go zones for me. But I do not try to defend these choices in any intellectual way. I also can’t stand ketchup, or honey. There’s a difference between taste and judgement.

>248 booksaplenty1949: My own choices are similar although I will always try to persuade myself to give genres that are not "me" another go sometimes with surprising results and at other times entirely predictable ones.

>232 PaulCranswick: I belive i am part Irish somehow in my family and plenty of French haha

>240 PaulCranswick: I agree that the 19th century produced many great novels which are very much the basis for books still being written. That in no way prevents me from wanting the 19th century up against the wall. I find most 19th books painful to read and must only dip in occasionally. I feel the same way about many early 20th century books and a fair number post WWII. It seems fairly recently that I've gotten through piles of books without hideous sexism or racism. Classism, alas, is still flourishing.

>244 booksaplenty1949: What ever for? Just because I have objections to aspects of a story does not keep me from noticing its qualities. I've given all of those my time. I just don't feel like giving them more any time soon. Nor do I expect anyone to share my stated likes and dislikes.

>250 Owltherian: t is possible to do those DNA test thingies that reveals your ethnic make-up, Lily. I haven't done mine but I am going from know antecedents.

>251 quondame: Certainly no criticism intended from me, Susan. We are each creatures of our tastes and mine are no better or worse than yours and vice versa. Class was certainly a predominant feature of my youthful concerns and I am sure that today's continued divergence in incomes this has not gotten better whilst it has gotten different.

>252 PaulCranswick: My dad says my grandparents were Irish and i know from papers my grandparents on my bio mums side are part French and my grandfather can speak it quite well.

>253 Owltherian: We find our antecedents out from our parents and their parents, Lily. So I guess it is clear that you do indeed have Irish and French ancestry.

>254 PaulCranswick: Yep! I also have plenty of others in there as well. I am a human mixing pot like you said a few threads back haha.

>255 Owltherian: Did I say that, Lily? I must assume that I meant it in a good way.

>256 PaulCranswick: You did in fact say that. I thought it was a little funny and didn't take it in a bad way

BOOK # 40



The List of Suspicious Things by Jennie Godrey
Date of Publication : 2024
Origin of Author : UK
Gender of Author : Female
Pages : 439 pp
Challenges : Alternative Women's List 6/16

A good thing about making personal challenges is that you are free to adjust them. This book wasn't on my original alternative Women's List but it clearly should be so I have shoe-horned it in.

It is 1979 and two terrible things stalk the streets of Yorkshire. One is the spectre of Mrs Thatcher - freshly ensconced in Number 10 and about to demolish the industrial heartland of God's Own Country and there is also the Yorkshire Ripper hiding in the shadows and taking the lives of women in a brutal manner.

This story features the lives of a number of people in this community with troubles and concerns and secrets and shames of their own and two girls who run these secrets to ground. They do so with tragic and cathartic consequences.

A debut novel and sometimes seems so but the author has a tremendous gift for characterization and this results in an immersive and well realized work of fiction. I have probably enjoyed this novel more than anything else I have read this year so far.

Recommended without reservation.

>257 Owltherian: I can't remember the context but it would definitely have been well intentioned as my intentions are well known to me at least! I am glad to see you settling nicely into the group.

>259 PaulCranswick: Im glad i am, and im especially glad to have joined LT.

>260 Owltherian: That is good, Lily, because I remember your earlier problems with people in other groups making things unpleasant for you.

>261 PaulCranswick: Yeah, they dont bother me anymore.

>262 Owltherian: That is good.

>258 PaulCranswick: I'm delighted that you enjoyed The List of Suspicious Things so much, Paul and nice review. I loved it too. It's hard to pick a favourite book, but so far I think The List of Suspicious Things and Brotherless Nights are my favourite reads so far this year. I heard about The List of Suspicious Things on Eric Karl Anderson's book tube channel, and I ordered it from Blackwell's . Well worth it I think. My current read is proving to be very good so far, The Household by Stacey Halls. But not as good as The List of Suspicious Things , at least not so far.

>264 vancouverdeb: We do have a tendency to pick the same books Deb! I read the last Stacey Halls book Mrs England and adored it last year. I want to read all her other books too.

>256 PaulCranswick: “Nationality” pretty much a myth, in any event. Someone born in Dubrovnik in 1917 and living there until 1992 would have been successively a citizen of four countries: Austria, Italy, Yugoslavia, and Croatia. Similar stories everywhere, although the timeframe is usually somewhat longer.

>256 PaulCranswick: I wouldn't describe it as a myth but it is not static.
I am part English and part Irish (3 grandparents English and 1 Irish)
Hani is Malaysian (of Malay ethnicity) born in Singapore (grandparents had elements of Javan, Bugis, Mindanao, Malay)
What does that make our kids. Throw into the mix Nami/Pip's father is half French.

>230 ArlieS: I can see that -- and I totally get the OCD thing. Once whatever part of my mind decides something goes in a particular order, or is a set, whenever that's disturbed, I CANNOT leave it alone. I'm not much for horror either, but I see that particular challenge (just to play with the specifics) as possible, as to me a middle school horror book would likely be hysterically funny to my adult sensibilities (and I do occasionally read middle grade books, because some of my favorite authors write them). Then again, I watch bad movies for the roasting possibilities. Your mileage may vary. :)

I guess the big thing to me about such challenges is picking out the ones that feel the most accessible, and then trying one that I know is outside my comfort zone. After all, the whole point of the exercise is to push us outside our comfort zones because sometimes we don't realize that those zones are shrinking in on us (I've learned this on levels beyond reading, and it was hard!) For instance, I would NEVER have read Jane Austen if I hadn't been challenged about it. I was firmly an SF/F reader at the time, I refused to read romance of any stripe (because it was "stupid" -- and, admittedly, a lot of it still is to me, but I'm softening). I put Austen in the category of stuff busty college girls in pearls and sweater sets read, none of which describes me (well, the girl part is apt).

The worst that can happen, in my mind, is that I read something out of my usual zone, I don't like it, and I stop reading it. I've also come to terms with not finishing books I don't like (unless there's money or a grade involved!) although that is harder sometimes than others :) But you always have to balance the pros and cons for yourself -- if I was challenged, for instance, to read something about animal abuse or animal rescue, I'd give it a pass, because that's a huge trigger for me and I am very picky about what I'm willing to spend the day crying about!

>268 Murphy-Jacobs: Your Austen comment is interesting - a lot of contemporary fiction that I am beginning to really enjoy would have passed me by without this group.

>233 PaulCranswick: Paul, you make my heart pang in sympathy! For that, you get some of my history and one story to make you laugh.

My husband decided to return to university for his graduate degree in 2008, which meant leaving Florida for South Carolina -- a 500 mile move, not that much. But we had a lot of books and we didn't intend to stay in SC beyond the time he needed for a degree. With that in mind, we rented a storage unit months in advance of his start date and spend weekends packing and hauling books and assorted things to SC (and, as usually happens, even with months of packing into self-pack moving container, we STILL didn't get everything packed in time). We ended up with 2 storage units, one large one for furniture that wouldn't fit into our new and much smaller rental, and one climate controlled for books, instruments, and other more fragile things. Then we ended up staying in SC for 12 years, and I renamed the book storage unit "The Book Dungeon" (it was partially under ground, as it happens) and I'd go there every few months to poke through my boxes, rearrange things, and generally pet my books. My reading for those years was MUCH less, for a variety of reasons, mostly because I like wandering my own shelves to pick a book.

For our 10th wedding anniversary, my husband and I spent 2 weeks in England, in and around London. I was deep in my Heyer reading then, and packed books with me, but I read all the way through the flight (sleeping on planes isn't something I do easily) so finished up what I'd brought in a day or so. But London has WATERSTONES! and a couple of specialty bookstores we wanted to visit, plus a few used bookstores, and the terrifying British Museum bookstore. So, while we were staying near Hungerford, we realized we had more books than we could take back in our luggage, and we should ship them. Being young and having spent most of our money on books, we walked from the resort hotel into town carrying the books (fairly weighty, including hardbacks), found the post office in the back of a store, and then scavenged a suitable box or two from neighboring shops. The store owners and postmistress found us highly amusing as we prepared our package. And then, of course, as we were walking back, we went by the bookstore in town...and bought a couple more books!

I have another book story from that trip, but I'll save it for another time :)

>244 booksaplenty1949: I can give a vote for Catcher in the Rye. I read that one as a young adult and just wondered why. Completely passed me by. I think it might have been too much of its time to be currently seen as so very essential. Like a lot of books from previous generations, it has to be seen in its social and cultural setting. I'm not sure it carries universal messages, or at least not great ones. At least, I didn't see them, and even reading about it doesn't help.

But then, personal canon and cultural canon are not required to match up, are they? I have a few books on my shelves about the Western Canon I want to read, as I think there is some heavy duty work being done on it now.

>270 Murphy-Jacobs: Lovely stories, Sherri. We are sort of between units at the moment having moved most of the easily moveables upstairs already (including all but 4 of my books). The furniture will be moved tomorrow (while I am safely at work!). I finished my book this morning and only had my Friday purchases and one more book - News from Nowhere by William Morris to go at.

Seeing all the empty bookshelves is an incredibly strange feeling.

>271 Murphy-Jacobs: Yeah, The Catcher in the Rye left me cold too.

>272 PaulCranswick: When we moved from South Carolina to Kansas, my husband had taken a job with a large corporation, and we had a moving allowance (!) and professional movers! Our little 1000 square foot (I should translate to metric, but I'm lazy. Some day we should talk about how weird it is that those who use Imperial can "see" to estimate size and distance in Imperial, but metric makes no sense to us! It is soo weird.) townhome, plus the large storage unit, plus the book dungeon, completely filled the largest moving truck, an 18 wheeler. And that wasn't including the stuff we moved ourselves (which included 2 big fish tanks, 5 cats, 2 dogs, and assorted things to live with while waiting for the movers). I was never so indulged as I was with those movers! I've moved house several times, but not since I was a small, small child have I been spared the packing and hauling!

While I hope one day to return to the East Coast and, with luck, Appalachia (where my heart is!) I dread the idea of moving. I will have to reduce the overall "stuff" sooo much! I am NOT a person who is happy in a minimalist world.

>267 PaulCranswick: I recall reading about someplace in Britain which celebrated the centenary of the local discovery of the skeleton of a Stone Age man (possibly so-called Cheddar Man, found in 1903) by inviting residents of the town to submit DNA samples to see if they shared any in common with this resident from 10,000 years ago. I can’t recall if any who participated were in fact his descendants, but they certainly discovered that their DNA was anything but purely “English” or even purely European, even though their families had lived in the neighbourhood for many many generations.

>273 Murphy-Jacobs: Once i was moved by professional movers. Most items were being put in storage. Their regulations were that books were to be wrapped in packages of five before being placed in special storage boxes. One look at my book shelves and they assigned a mover exclusively to that task for the rest of the day. Unfortunately when I moved back home no one but me was assigned to unwrap the books and replace them on the shelves. Took me more than a day, I assure you.

>272 PaulCranswick: If you look at the LT reviews of The Catcher in the Rye listed by number of votes you will see a review by girlunderglass from 2009 with 32 “thumbs” (first on the list) which I think makes very good points about the book’s appeal or lack thereof for certain people.

>275 booksaplenty1949: My books were already boxed up in the special file boxes, so their weight was more or less regular from box to box. And as I still have some 20+ boxes waiting for shelves, I understand the process well!

I still have rolls and rolls of the paper the movers used to wrap every single little tiny thing, because most of it was in good shape. I grab some from time to time for projects (it's perfect for making clothing patterns, and also for catching paint!)

>276 booksaplenty1949: Thanks for mentioning girlunderglass. She was a lively participant in the 75ers group back in 2009.

>273 Murphy-Jacobs: That is quite a lot of animals in 1000 sq feet, Sherri! Malaysia and the UK follow Imperial measurements too when it comes to floor space so I am far more comfortable with 1,000 ft2 than 93m2!
We have professional movers for the furniture but not all the moveables.
I hope you manage to get back to Appalachia one fine day.

>274 booksaplenty1949: I think all those DNA samplings have shown that we are virtually all mongrels to a degree!

>275 booksaplenty1949: I am going to take Tuesday off work for my books. My Sister in law has moved the books upstairs (for a hefty fee, although the fee was unrequested) and has already organised the books in a rough alphabetical ordering by author (rough because the As are collected together but not sorted etc)
I am sure that I won't get finished.

>276 booksaplenty1949: I will go and look at that, thanks. I felt that I was missing something when I read it.

>277 Murphy-Jacobs: At least I know how many books still remain (after culls and donations) as 9,188 books made the trip upstairs. This excludes Hani's pretty extensive collection of cookbooks.

>278 avatiakh: I miss many of our friends who were active a decade or so ago - Ilana, Valerie, Kath and so many more.

It's one of the worst things about being online -- you make friends who feel as close as anyone you've known, but they can vanish in seconds without any reason or knowledge. It takes such effort to make and keep friends when one is an adult -- I've read a little about it here and there -- and if we don't hang on to the ones we make when young, we can end up without any friends at all as we age.

I met my husband online, you know, 30+ years ago when "the internet" was just AOL on dialup :) He is one of perhaps 3 people I've befriended online that I maintain contact with, but I miss many of the others just as much. I know I've ghosted on people, too, in large part because I have clinical depression and anxiety disorder, and sometimes I just "shut down" and can't handle the interaction with other people well.

Whoops, didn't mean to dive in like that, but I'm being honest, so I will not delete it (although that is currently my impulse). Can you tell I overthink things a lot? :)

>282 Murphy-Jacobs: Thank you for sharing that, Sherri. Friends are incredibly important to our emotional well-being. I strongly believe that. My best friend who I have known since I was 4 years old called me yesterday and we chatted and argued (like old friends do who have no inhibitions with each other - our arguments are usually about soccer and the state of the world). But I treasure the friends I have made in this group - a number of whom, despite my geographical dislocation I have managed to meet in RL.

I think that my place here is a place where you can freely vent and you will never get judged by the host at the least.

>279 PaulCranswick: Yes, my point. “Racial” classification is meaningless as a basis for understanding anything significant about a person.

>283 PaulCranswick: My thanks will have to be contained in a photo...I gift you Leo sleeping on Zeus.

>284 booksaplenty1949: Indeed and it is hugely complicated too. We are all such a mix that the nonsense of things like reparations to the antecedents of slavery is shown up. Sonny Hostin who had been hugely vocal turned out to be descended from slave-owners. That is not to decry the awfulness of slavery but to blame the succeeding generations for the faults of their forebears makes no sense whatsoever - morally, practically and - genetically in many, many instances.

With my Irish ancestry surely I would be entitled to some recompense from the British crown and with my English antecedents due to pay that recompense or make a claim in the alternative for the harm caused my great-great-great-great grandparents prior to the Factory Act Amendments of 1833?

>285 Murphy-Jacobs: That is a nice gift!

>286 PaulCranswick: Without commenting on the issue of reparations, many descendants of slaves are also descendants of the slave owners who sexually exploited their female slaves. As long as slavery/colour bars of the “one drop of blood” variety were in existence such people derived no benefit from this relationship.

>288 booksaplenty1949: Yes me too. I am sure that I have Viking blood in their somewhere and our people were uprooted and/or pillaged by them all over Europe. I don't think that Norway and Denmark are keen on reparations though.

There isn't a single race who at some stage or another have not been enslaved - it is not the fault of succeeding generations.

>289 PaulCranswick: I certainly agree with your last point. But slavery in ancient times wasn’t about race; it was about bad luck in a war or a raid. A slave who subsequently purchased or was gifted with his/her freedom re-entered society as an equal. Europeans apparently developed moral qualms about enslaving defeated enemies, but came up with a theory of racial inferiority which justified African slavery. This had more toxic effects, because a freed slave was still an inferior human being. The Nazis borrowed the “scientific” language justifying African slavery and applied it to other “inferior” races with appalling consequences. We are still dealing with the negative effects of theories of race.

>290 booksaplenty1949: Not quite sure that slavery in ancient times was a mere matter of bad luck. The Barbary slavers and those taking slaves into Arabia and Persia both from East Africa and the shores of the Mediterranean were certainly not targeting their own race.
There is not downplaying the evils of the North Atlantic slave trade but it is not an unique evil and it did not impact predominantly the USA even with much larger numbers being sold into slavery in the Caribbean and, especially, Brazil.
The retributive notions associated with slavery in the US at the moment are unhelpful in aiding a full reconciliation of the obvious equality of people before God.

>291 PaulCranswick: I will have to look deeper into the history of slavery, clearly. Can you suggest any particular book? I’m inclined to agree that financial reparations, while of some symbolic value perhaps, do nothing to promote real reconciliation.

>292 booksaplenty1949: It is a subject that I need to read more about too to be honest but you could try A Brief History of Slavery by Jeremy Black which covers the "slave trade" from ancient times to modern and discusses Modern Slavery and what governments are and are not doing.

>285 Murphy-Jacobs: Love the picture. We have a black standard poodle too but no Leo to curl up with!

>294 mdoris: We retain two cats but cannot keep a dog in our condo. When I move back to the UK it will be one of my first tasks to search for a canine companion. Hani is a big fan of poodles but I want to get a spaniel or beagle or some such.

>282 Murphy-Jacobs: Virtual hugs and sympathy, from another person who "shuts down" intermittently on human interaction, though probably not at the same intensity you are dealing with.

>285 Murphy-Jacobs: Awww

>291 PaulCranswick: I suspect the difference was that quite often while members of group A made slaves of members of group B, other members of group B were making slaves of members of group A.

One of my current books, Empires of the Sea, makes this point for Islamic and Christian pirates, both of which manned the rowing benches of their galleys with slaves taken from the other religious group.

>295 PaulCranswick: You might not have noticed, but I'm a (standard) poodlevangelist! I have three, all Standards, but varying in size from 70 lbs to 40 lbs (31kg to 18 kg) and I highly recommend them as easy to train, easy to take everywhere type dogs. Zeus was my service/emotional support animal for 10 years as I went through the hardest part of my mental illness. Also, no shedding. Yes, grooming, but then someone else is vacuuming up the dog hair (as well as letting you make "creative" choices about appearance, if you are so inclined. They don't care!!) If you can, find a reputable breeder and talk about personality and your life style to get the right match. Poodles are intelligent dogs who thrive on novelty, but can be perfectly happy just sitting in the park watching people with you. Mine have traveled all over the US with us (including 2 day drives from SC to Maine with assorted cats in the vehicle!), stayed in hotels with us, and are great companion dogs. They are highly versatile, being used for hunting (retrievers), security, and of course, in circuses as performing dogs. And they are on the rise as guide and assistance dogs.

>296 ArlieS: My weakness is that I am prone to bouts of quite appalling depression which I often hide behind a veil of jocularity. It has resulted in my making some very strange life choices occasionally and I am utterly blessed with having Hani who both understands me and picks me up when it is needed. An angel as well as a soulmate.

>297 ArlieS: I think that you are right to point out the religious component in this, Arlie and I have noted many times the evils that have been done in the name of religion.

>298 Murphy-Jacobs: Hani is a convert already, Sherri!

>161 PaulCranswick: That is great news Paul.