Book Discussion: The Name of the Wind ~CAUTION ~ Contains SPOILERS

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Book Discussion: The Name of the Wind ~CAUTION ~ Contains SPOILERS

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1clamairy
syyskuu 21, 2008, 4:20pm

Have at it, some more!

2JPB
syyskuu 21, 2008, 4:32pm

The name of the wind?

Away out here, they got a name
For rain and wind and fire
The rain is Tess, the fire Joe,
And they call the wind Maria

3drneutron
syyskuu 21, 2008, 4:54pm

Well, I'm glad you put this in the spoiler thread, 'cause, you know, I'd be really ticked if I hit the no spoiler thread and there was the name of the wind plastered for everybody to see...

4Atomicmutant
syyskuu 21, 2008, 9:31pm

But, can you paint with all the colors of the wind?

5JPB
Muokkaaja: syyskuu 21, 2008, 10:04pm

No. The colors of the wind got caught in the windmills of my mind, which I was tipping at while riding my horse with no name, until I saw storm clouds, so I was rushed to get home, trying to get to my cake I left outside, before it rained on it, but I got there too late and now I just don't think I can take it, as I lost the recipe. :(

6clamairy
syyskuu 21, 2008, 10:11pm

:oP~

7Choreocrat
syyskuu 21, 2008, 11:31pm

So, what do y'all think of Kvothe? Some people I lent my book to found him to be quite annoying and arrogant. I just thought he was charismatic.

There was a lot of potential for annoyance in having the plot do the jumping back and forth from the present (the bar situation) to childhood.

One of my questions is whether people consider it to be too wordy? One of my hesitations was that it's written in a kind of mellifluous, lots of words, adjectives and adverbs are great style. Apparently this is quite out of fashion in the literary world. It worked in this case, but other authors would have annoyed me half to death with it.

8Musereader
syyskuu 22, 2008, 9:12am

Present day Kvothe seemed self assured but gruff, in the academy he was a bit arrogant, but naive at the same time. All of his attitude was justifiable though so I didn't find him annoying.

Scott Lynch used the switching between past and present as well (more so because his books are half and half) and his books seem popular too. I think it's something translated from narrators in books to flashbacks on TV back to an expanded narrator role in books. If you can stand Lost or The Nine and have read books in the past with a scribe introducing the story it just seems natural progression for the story to be interrupted by the present every so often.

9littlegeek
syyskuu 22, 2008, 10:29am

I found Kvothe incredibly annoying. He does everything not only well, but better than anyone else has ever done it. And he's totally arrogant. But when needed for the plot, he suddenly gets incredibly stupid and is easily played by other characters. In short, this is a plot-over-character type of book, which isn't my preference, but I think it works ok for this genre.

10JannyWurts
syyskuu 22, 2008, 10:36am

I was totally captivated by the opening of this book. Amazing potential -

When it flashed back, it got soooo predictable. Still a good read, but I was one who found the character insufferably arrogant. Being part of the story, that came in stride.

I know there is more coming in the sequels, but I felt completely cheated at the end...all the stuff that so tantalized in the early chapters was made so mundane - and the sawn off chapter just irked me - lots of writers do this. My view, it's just bad planning. A series can have endings that leave more coming - but also satisfy as a pause point.

Then the repeat of the opening premise - with no development, YET, with the resounding WOW, this is gonna be SO deep and powerful...no substance to that, as yet.

I WILL run straight out and get the sequel - I truly want this author to pull it off! Lots of fantasy can SEEM predicatble - it's all in how it resolves. This book was sweetly readable, had a solid cast of characters - but it left so much untapped. We know a rather mysterious character's quite (?) unmystifying kid and "college" years....I want to see where it moves to.

The quite unexpected start of the story - seen in 3rd person, where the character was TOTALLY burned out - and yet still going - was gorgeously mysterious. I liked beginning where it did, with the idea of this towering mystery.

The first person view tore off that veil, and I had a bit of a bump, disappointed, that the close of the volume didn't cure.

I have kept this book - absolutely - (I read a lot and pass them away) - on the trust that this author who wrote that massively amazing beginning will deliver in the course of the series.) If he can pull it off, I'll be on my feet applauding.

It's a first volume well worth the ride, in any event.

11Severn
syyskuu 22, 2008, 10:41am

But...but...but

*raises hand*

He's a smug, arrogant genius.

I kind of like that. A somewhat unlikeable hero, who's intelligent in an intellectual way, but dense when it comes to human relations. I want to smack him as much as admire him.

Hm.

This trend of narrative-through-flashback puts me in mind of timeslip literature, or a version of it. Traditional timeslip emerged in fantasy writings for children - having one child in one time period 'meet' another from a different time period. I can see a bit of an evolution in today's writings from Lynch, and Rothfuss and others.

I like it!

More when I am awake.

12Musereader
syyskuu 22, 2008, 12:39pm

Jannywurts, It says on the internet that it was one story The Song of Flame and Thunder that the publisher split into 3 volumes. If thats true that probably accounts for the apparently bad planning.

13JannyWurts
syyskuu 22, 2008, 2:55pm

#11 Severn - yup, you summed it up perfectly. The fascination of the "off the scale genius" who misses the obvious - works in the story - seen it in life, too. The day the two MIT grads, who spent the whole night in our driveway taking apart a car engine, then reinstalling it, and failing to start it with the key next morning. Dad opened the window to them scratching their heads, and asked, Did you remember to put the spark plugs back? Duh...(yeah, I know, spark plugs in cars are passe.)

#12 - Musereader - in the author's favor, I had heard something on the rumor of that background history, too.

The hair-curdling yell I raised over the ending was just pure frustration, that the next bits surely must be positioned to establish the connection with that oh-so-brooding and mysteriously powerful opening, and the meat behind the changes in the character's growth are quite likely about to start to happen. Because the character, opening 3rd person, here, is NOT arrogant. He's not young kid, anymore, or blindly rash. He's changed!

Just when this volume starts to unveil the looming promise and show the serious meat - we hit the cutoff. I swear I yelled aloud.

Wasn't prepared for the slamming stop, mid-motion, is all. I was flipping, reading over hours for that very shift....arrrgh!

If the proof in the pudding's in the oven, still, it'll be worth the bleeding heart wait.

As a first novel - the very brilliance makes the frustrations shout out. Don't mistake my passion for less than edge of the chair enthusiasm - I want to see the whole spread of this tale, more than anything. The kid was fun - but now where will this story take us - -

14littlegeek
syyskuu 22, 2008, 3:12pm

I don't mind cliffhangers. I have to agree that the frame story is much more compelling than the backstory, so waiting around for the obvious school day cliches to play themselves out got a bit tiresome.

If Rothfuss was going for a bumbling genius type, he wasn't very successful, imho. It just seems like sloppy character building to me. I just finished reading Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World; now there's a well executed bumbling genius (the old professor who lives behind the waterfall).

If I sound hypercritical, I just want to say that I really did enjoy this book, despite the negative comments I might make. They're of the "you are a good writer, you can do better than this" type, not the "oy, vey, you suck" type.

15jchines
syyskuu 23, 2008, 3:53pm

I was frustrated at the ending as well. I enjoyed the book, and it blows me away that this was Pat's first novel, but it felt like things ended just as they were about to get *really* exciting. I like Kvothe's story as a kid, but it's the burnt-out Kvothe who's most interesting. Likewise, I really want to see more of the present-day events which are only hinted at, and how everything ties together.

Waiting impatiently for The Wise Man's Fear...

16readafew
syyskuu 23, 2008, 4:13pm

I thought this was an excellent example of storytelling, the man can tell stories within stories within stories, which hint at important things to come. Lots of wonderful subtle setups. Now is this book perfect? No, I irritated with Kvothe's blind spots in regards to people interaction, but they did make sense to a certain extent when dealing with the period of time alone in the woods and alone on the streets.

Is he almost too perfect, maybe, but it does make his subsequent falls and short sightedness all the more spectacular and obvious in hindsight. Also don't forget as much as he is being 'honest and accurate' he himself is still telling his own story with his own biases of himself fully integrated.

I can't wait for the next one in the series. I also think this is an incredible first novel.

17MrsLee
syyskuu 29, 2008, 1:53pm

I loved this story. In my review, I used the word lyrical. That's how it felt to me, the man is a wordsmith. I know very little of all the rules and regulations of writing, but I know when a word is used aptly, and this book made my heart sing.

As far as Kvothe and his character, he didn't bother me a bit. Perhaps because I've been in very close relationship (my sons and their friends) with very bright boys the age he is in this book (15 for the most part), who can be very socially naive and very arrogant about their skills, etc. One minute you want to sing for all their potential, and the next you want to smack them upside the head! I thought his character very believable, especially considering the emotional, mental and physical trauma he had endured.

Like others, the end left me agonizing, but I wasn't surprised. When I had less than a half inch left to read and he still had no sword skills, I knew we were only dealing with the childhood here. I loved his two friends in the college, many laugh out loud moments there. I like, with reservations, the Masters at the college, loved the whole idea of Sympathy and naming things.

Bast intrigues me and I am dying to get to the part of the story where he meets Kvothe! The back and forth in time didn't bother me a particle. I needed the breathers too, and wanted to know what was happening in the present, why is he hiding in an inn, apparently without his magical powers? Sometimes I felt interesting people were just dropped, such as Skarpi and Abenthy, but I have a feeling we will meet them again.

I had to put the book down when he took the candle into the Archives. I couldn't stand the possibilities on an empty stomach. I was quite relieved when he was only banned, the thought of all those books going up in flame made me sick.

18clamairy
lokakuu 7, 2008, 8:25am

Yay! I can finally post in this thread! I really enjoyed this book, and kept trying to find excuses to sneak off and read it. I only got bogged down when Kvothe and Denna were traipsing through the woods together. I'm glad Patrick Rothfuss didn't throw in a love scene. I might have barfed.

Yes, Kvothe is a tad arrogant, but only because he deserves to be. I have met people who appear to do just about everything well, and lack many (all?) social skills. Half of my friends in mensa fit that bill.

Anyone else keep picturing Luna Lovegood from the Potter films whenever the girl from the Underthing shows up?

I love the way this guy writes. It's almost Guy Gavriel Kay-esque!

19readafew
lokakuu 7, 2008, 9:59am

Maybe then I'll have to bump GGK up on my 'to try' authors.

20MrsLee
lokakuu 7, 2008, 2:34pm

#18 - Having just watched all the Firefly episodes, I kept seeing her as River. The girl from the Underthing I mean. I also kept seeing Bast as Simon, though I fought it.

21clamairy
lokakuu 7, 2008, 3:26pm

#19 - Oh yes, you must! Well, only if you appreciate Tolkien. (Yes, I do realize there a lot of folks in here who do not. )

#20 - Haven't watch any of those yet.

22JPB
lokakuu 7, 2008, 3:28pm

Okay... this book has enough good reviews, that it is on my Christmas wish-list.

*cough-cough-hint-cough-cough*

23clamairy
lokakuu 7, 2008, 4:01pm

#22 - Umm... it's ALREADY in your library, dude.

24clamairy
lokakuu 7, 2008, 4:02pm

Judging from the entry date 'Dec 29, 2007' you asked for it for Christmas LAST year. ;o)

25JPB
lokakuu 7, 2008, 4:25pm

Okay. I have been living in boxes for seven months, and life has been busy; most books are in storage. How handy for LibraryThing - all these databases at work, spinning bits across the globe, all to enable my dear friend in pointing out my forgetfulness ;)

26littlebookworm
lokakuu 8, 2008, 7:05am

#20 - Me too! Auri definitely seemed like a River to me.

I finally finished, as well. It took me forever and I'm not sure why. Kvothe didn't overly annoy me. Having recently been a teenager, I know how boys (and sometimes girls) tend to think they're invincible, brilliant, and meanwhile have absolutely no skill with the opposite sex. By the present day chapters, you can tell he's obviously grown since then, and I really really want to know how he got there.

On the other hand, it did frustrate me that every time something good happened to Kvothe, it got taken away almost instantly with even worse repercussions. I hated, hated, hated his conflict with Ambrose. The foreshadowing bothered me. I spent the whole second half of the book wondering and worrying about what bad thing was going to happen to him next. I knew it was going to happen, it was just a matter of when.

I really liked it though, I'm eager to read the next installment.

27brlb21
lokakuu 8, 2008, 8:29pm

>18 clamairy: I also found that part of the book the least entertaining, it was so slow.

I really enjoyed the character of Bast, and can't wait to find out more about him.

I definitely enjoyed the book - but I read it months and months ago, so can't recall too many specifics to contribute something more worthwhile to the conversation.

28clamairy
lokakuu 8, 2008, 8:33pm

#27 - Hey, your comments are plenty worthwhile. I liked Bast quite a bit, too. I'm dying to find find out what exactly he is!

29littlegeek
lokakuu 9, 2008, 11:46am

I think it's possible that Bast and the girl from Underthingy are the same person. Either that or he's a ghouly-thingy (whatever they were called, I can't remember).

Looking forward to the next volume.

30clamairy
lokakuu 9, 2008, 8:09pm

#29 - Oh! I hadn't thought about that at all! Interesting idea, lg.

31JannyWurts
lokakuu 9, 2008, 10:48pm

My bet is that Denna isn't all she seems...but we'll have to wait and see.

I still chuckle over what I think was the BEST line in the whole book, describing the teacher with the mouth like a cat'sass...classic. I had a math teacher who looked exactly like that...!

32clamairy
lokakuu 10, 2008, 7:35am

#31 - I chuckled over that one, too. I remember reading a Roald Dahl book to my son when he was younger, I think it was George's Marvelous Medicine, and in it Dahl described George's grandma as having a mouth like a dog's butt. I'm sure he worded it much more cleverly than I, but I just about fell off my son's bed laughing.

33WildMaggie
lokakuu 15, 2008, 9:22am

Now I'm finally able to post to this thread; got through the whole book! Now, what to say? Hummmmm

I mostly agree with previous posts; very good work for a first book, a little predictable, great world building. The world building was particularly strong. The basic premise of the boy losing his parents to the evil villain(s), suffering as a neglected orphan, having to make his own way in the world to learn what he needs to get revenge/get over it/make his own life has been done and done. (Didn't Charles Dickens do it well?) The author handles it pretty well but it's not very original. I also found the long section at school bogged down a bit; a sharper editing pencil would have helped. How many different ways do we need to be told that Koveth is too brilliant to believe and is twisting Ambrose's tail to make a powerful enemy? OK, we got it.

I don't think Auri is so much like River as like Luna; an observer who see what others don't and not at all threatening (not like River; kicking ass, stabbing Jane, etc). And I don't think she'll turn out to be Bast, he seems very obviously to be born whatever fey creature the author will reveal him to be in some sequel, not a damaged student. Would the University have admitted a demon? Where would he have gotten his recommendation? Anybody else wonder about the similarity of the name to the ancient Egyptian goddess? Or have I just read too much Gaiman? Auri is so clearly a plot device to get Koveth into the Archives. At least we weren’t asked to believe he was so brilliant that he figured everything out for himself. Plus she gave him a chance to show his quality; being kind to this waif even before he has a selfish motivation. Of course, it’s nice if plot devices are also decently developed characters so the author gets points there.

I didn't hate the ending but I was a little disappointed. I generally don't like series books where each does not stand alone to be enjoyed without reading the rest of the series. I think authors owe readers a complete tale; it can be connected to the rest or a subpart of a larger tale, but I think it needs to be more independent than this one. Seems too much like just a commercial tactic to get readers to buy the next book so they can finally finish the first book. But that didn't ruin the book for me. I will probably read the next book when I happen to find it but I won’t obsessively check for the release date. This was a good group read selection and I’m glad GD introduced me to this work.

34MrsLee
lokakuu 15, 2008, 10:58am

#33 - For me, I would have liked to have seen more of the professors/Masters at the college, some more classes, and at least a couple of them able to bring Kvothe up short once or twice. Maybe then it would have crossed into HP realm, I don't know.

Did anyone else think the belief system that was mentioned, at least the stories of the god there, had strong ties to Roman Catholicism? I think that, and the world building reminded me the most of Tolkien. Not that Tolkien was as straightforward in his tales of origin as this author, just the feel of it.

35WildMaggie
lokakuu 16, 2008, 1:55pm

#33 -- I found several secondary characters intriguing and would have liked more .... but the book is already very long. Maybe the intriguing characters could have their own books in the series. I liked Davi, the moneylender, and would have liked to know what she demands in payment of debts when people don't have the money owed. More interesting than a pound of flesh, I bet. Maybe we'll find out in the next book.

The religion sounds a lot like medieval Christianity, which felt right to me as this is a pseudo-medieval Europe kind of world. (Anyone notice how the end-page map kind of looks like Europe with the main bit just switched around a bit?) One thing that seems a bit off from Christianity was the god's requirement that people had to be punished, so even the ones who repented got wacked. That's not how it's done in the Christian Bible; it's repent and you are forgiven. That seemed to echo something Nordic or some other pre-Christian European beliefs. Certainly there's a fallen angel element to Lanre/Haliex (or however that's spelt) although his motivation and goals are clearly very different from Lucifer’s.

36Busifer
Muokkaaja: lokakuu 22, 2008, 7:57am

So, I finished this one the other night.

What did I think?

Well, first off - I liked it. Good worldbuilding, I think. The characters did not annoy me the least. It's clear, I think, that the 'present day' Kvothe is not the arrogant young man who attends university, and I've met my share of these young guns thinking they can do anything and get away with it.
So, pretty believable.

I think it's obvious that this will be a tale in three parts. Gigantic clue in the beginning - Kvothe will need 3 days to tell his tale to the Chronicler, and the book is subtitled 'day one'. So we know from the beginning that this will not be a finished tale.

Because of this it figures that the first part will deal with typical coming of age issues, and we see a lot of the standard tropes and archetypes paraded for us. Well handled, in most parts, but when I closed the book I was frustrated by the lack of turning point - a coming of age tale usually has to display how this or that set of events made the protagonist into a grown person. None such here, really. I think the naming of the wind would be 'it', but we don't get to see any of those effects on Kvothe. He just gets to continue university, pays off his debts to the gal in Imre, and are generally lost.

Frustrating.

Personally I think this suite of books really should had been published as one volume. The ending is not even a cliffhanger - it's just a lot of loose ends, dangling in the wind.

I will buy part II when it arrives in April, and part III whenever it's going to be published. Holding my thumbs for some nice twists and a clever conclusion...

ETA - And yes, he's far too wordy, sometimes - uses to many words to say too little. And the detour with the dragon? *duh* Kind of a disappointment.

37Busifer
lokakuu 22, 2008, 8:24am

On the topics of magic and belief -

I don't think the magic system was particularly bad, but placed beside Brandon Sanderson's allomantic system from the Mistborn books it looks weak and... well, weak.
(Brandon is also better at pacing is stories; possibly I think this has something to do with him utilising writer groups to tune his tales, but maybe Rothfuss do this as well?)

As for the belief system... I'm no expert on religions, but I think it would be good to remember that that bastard 'christianity' in no way is a single, monocultural, entity. Lutheran protestantism, which happens to be the former state religion here in Sweden, is very hard on penance and thinks repentance is for wusses. In fact, the general view is that because you're human you know you're going to sin, so you better make penance all day long, just to make sure.
So to me the religion as described felt like a christian variation. I didn't stay awake thinking about it, though, as religion wasn't a very prominent feature of the story.

What I did think about, though, was how the magic was viewed by the common people - by distrust and disbelief. It was mentioned in the book that the arcanists better behaved themselves and kept their innovativeness in check or the populace would turn against university and arcanists both. This was first demonstrated in the scene when Kvothe first met Abenthy. This is not far from a theme discussed in my previous read Anathem - just substitute 'arcanist' with 'scientist'.

Is this dread of knowledge, and of people with knowledge, a sign of our times? Is this a recurrent theme because it holds a high relevancy to how we as humans view knowledge and the shaping of knowledge?

38littlegeek
lokakuu 22, 2008, 11:15am

#37 Good point, Busifer. I do think it was an allegory about the mistrust of "book learnin'" that is so prevalent here in the US.

btw, I pretty much agree with your entire 2 posts (except I was annoyed by Kvothe) and I think this is a first for us. ;-)

39Busifer
Muokkaaja: lokakuu 22, 2008, 11:38am

#38 - Yes, a first! Let's celebrate - here, have a beer and let's do a toast :-)

And I think you're right about the allegory. Scary for it to turn up in two subsequent reads - indicates this mistrust is pretty prevalent...

40littlegeek
lokakuu 22, 2008, 11:49am

#39 In the current presidential campaign, the Republicans (well, Palin at least ) keep going on about the "real America" and "Joe Sixpack" and whatnot. They try to paint Obama as an elist, snobby, arugula-eating Harvard lawyer who can't possibly connect with regular people.

So, yeah, I'd say it's pretty prevalent.

Here's a beer for you!

41littlegeek
Muokkaaja: lokakuu 22, 2008, 11:52am

btw, I'd like to apologise to clam for bringing in the politics. I don't mean to offend anyone, I do respect Republicans, I'm just using that particular tactic as an example of what we were discussing about the book.

So, if you want to discuss the election, go to Pro & Con or Outside.

42katylit
lokakuu 26, 2008, 12:47am

Finished the book today. Loved it from start to finish. I found the writing excellent, Kvothe is an appealing character with lots of personality. Yes, he's arrogant, but then, he's an adolescent and really smart so to me it seems perfectly apt.

Auri reminded me of Luna too, with her wispy blond hair and vague other-worldliness, that's exactly how I pictured her!

I found the whole dragon episode fun, unexpected. It was interesting to read a different take on dragon behaviour and biological make-up. I love the mystery of the Chandrian, I'm looking forward to learning more about them. And how Kvothe lost his powers and how he met Bast and why Bast is so devoted to him.

I really got wrapped up in this book. Even with the foreshadowing...when Kvothe came back to the caravan I was thinking "No, don't look!" I was wishing something else for him 'cause I knew something dreadful had happened to his parents and the rest of the troupe. And with Ambrose, whenever those two would have an encounter I'd get an knot in my stomach. And the mercenary at the end of the book, when he comes into the Inn...now that had me on the edge of my seat! Whew! Maybe it's a good thing I'm finished the book!!! I don't think I could have taken much more at one time.

But I can't wait until April when the next one comes out! I'm hooked.

43clamairy
lokakuu 26, 2008, 9:41am

#42 - Once again we are simpatico!

My daughter bought this book when it first came out, and I was shaking my head at her, babbling about how she should research it first. But, apparently, reading the first few pages while sitting on the floor in Barnes & Noble got her hooked. Turns out she was 100% right, so my kudos to her.

44cal8769
lokakuu 26, 2008, 5:13pm

I finished yesterday and was relieved to see that katylit has described my feelings of the book so well. Thanks, katy. I too will be waiting on the edge of my seat for the next day.

45katylit
lokakuu 26, 2008, 7:28pm

:-)

46celebrian
lokakuu 27, 2008, 12:17pm

I also loved the book, and will be counting days until the next one is released.

47Morphidae
lokakuu 28, 2008, 9:07am

I'm 90% done with the book and like it. Not love, just like. I guess I don't find him arrogant because I was also "brilliant" but had little to no social skills. Also, his brilliance really doesn't get him anywhere in school. He still screws up a lot.

I don't understand the feelings that someone who says they are more intelligent than most people is arrogant. My mom says that about me. To me, it's the same as saying I'm brunette or like to read. It's just something about me that I know and has been backed up by testing since I was in first grade. It doesn't make me of more value than anyone else. And it didn't get my anywhere either. How is that arrogant?

I like how he didn't have horrible childhood. He was loved and cared about. Yes, eventually something terrible happened, but he has a basic foundation of goodness.

I also liked that he didn't end up in a typical situation of being abused by someone who took him in or being adopted by some wealthy stranger, etc. I thought the three years on his own was pretty different. But then I haven't read much Dickens either (sorry, yuck.)

I do think it's an overlong book and could have used some heavy editing.

I give it a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10.

48littlegeek
lokakuu 28, 2008, 11:21am

My understanding of the term "arrogant" is that there's some snobbery or distain for others mixed in. In other words, the arrogant person thinks his good qualities make him better than other people, an he subtly lets them know it.

49katylit
Muokkaaja: lokakuu 28, 2008, 12:29pm

Well, my little Oxford Illustrated Dictionary defines "arrogant" as overbearing, and presumptuous.

I don't think I see Kvothe as overbearing. Maybe he is a little presumptuous at times, but that's based on his self-confidence, his intelligence, his experience - things his three years of hardship have trained him to rely on. So perhaps arrogant isn't accurate after all.

Maybe just a bit egotistical? He knows he's very smart and he's impatient to learn everything right now, he doesn't want to wait, nor does he think he needs to wait. That's the impatience of youth/adolescence.

50billiejean
lokakuu 30, 2008, 3:48am

I finally finished the book. Yea! I really loved the book. I did not think that it was too wordy -- I liked the language in it. I also was somewhat more interested in the frame story than the back story, but I guess we need the back story to understand the frame story. I only hope that it won't stop with the dictation, but pursue what is going on in "real time," too. The one character that I can't really figure out is Denna. Maybe she will make more sense to me later on. I haven't read much SFF in a long time and I was worried about how long this book was, but I loved it and wanted to just keep on reading. I am eager to see the next installment.
--BJ

51celebrian
lokakuu 30, 2008, 2:38pm

>50 billiejean: My pet theory is that the back story is going to catch up with the frame story at the end of the next book and the third book is going to be about Kvothe coming to grips with his past and going on to triumph over his personal demons, both internal and external. Or, at least, I hope so.

52Busifer
lokakuu 30, 2008, 2:44pm

#51 - This is my theory (and hope) as well...

53readafew
lokakuu 30, 2008, 2:58pm

Well I expect the back story to catch up, in the middle of the 3rd book.

54WildMaggie
lokakuu 30, 2008, 3:17pm

Yeah, I think as readafew or maybe even more towards the last quarter of the 3rd book. Just based on the structure of the frame; 3 days to tell his story, the entire first book was day 1. He's already laid out his plan.

55Choreocrat
lokakuu 30, 2008, 7:10pm

I'm going to be the pessimist who thinks it won't catch up. It'd throw off the story rhythm. It will only sort of catch up in a "and then I came and bought the pub and eventually you guys got here. The end." kind of way.

56billiejean
lokakuu 30, 2008, 11:42pm

#55 Then what? Sequel? The End? Yikes, I want to hear more of the frame story. I want to know how they defeat those "spiders."
--BJ

57Choreocrat
lokakuu 31, 2008, 12:33am

Perhaps it'll end up like Angel: The Series and end with them running off to fight, but the result of the conflict is only implied/left to your imagination. Probably not, though. You're right, there is a need for conclusion there.

58mckait
lokakuu 31, 2008, 6:02am

I haven't really read much of this thread, just a post or two. I am just chiming in to say that I finally got a copy of this book and will start it this weekend, I hope.
I am looking forward to it!

59littlebookworm
lokakuu 31, 2008, 6:15am

I think the storytelling will catch up midway through the third and the frame story will kick in, personally. As long as the ending's not too rushed I'm okay with that.

60katylit
Muokkaaja: lokakuu 31, 2008, 9:17am

I got a response to my invitation to Patrick, asking him to join in our discussion:

"I'm sorry, but I've been really sick lately and working under a deadline, (hence the delay in getting back to you.) I'll have to take a pass. Thanks for thinking of me though....

Best,

pat"

It's too bad he can't join us, but I'm impressed that he took the time to send me a personal email. Nice of him.

61celebrian
lokakuu 31, 2008, 12:20pm

>55 Choreocrat: I will not be able to stand it if the book just ends. Rhythm or not, if he ends the last book with "... and then I bought the pub, etc." I will scream. Loud enough that all other GDers will be able to hear me all the way from Alaska. I like Kvothe and want him to work out his problems and live up to his potential- not mope around a bar somewhere in the sticks.

62WildMaggie
Muokkaaja: lokakuu 31, 2008, 2:01pm

50. But, billiejean, she is his love, she's just a girl who says .... Oh, sorry, singing to myself again.

But on Denna, I thought she was presented as a pragmatist. She's broke and there are limited ways for a girl of her station and talents to get by. She may end up a courtesan. Not a far step from being the musician with a patron that she's aiming at. Or maybe she will find a patron who doesn't expect to get paid back in sex; maybe a female patron. She clearly likes our hero a lot, maybe loves him. But she needs to eat regularly so she's not throwing herself at him. He can’t even really support himself. Plus she is pretty jaded about guys who adore her (and she knows Kvothe adores her). I can see her as a little like Mary Crawford in Austen's Mansfield Park. She really likes the guy but can't commit to him unless he's much richer! Doesn't love him enough to starve with him. Some might call that unromantic but others may call that practical. Or others may see her as a cold-hearted manipulator who gets what she needs with the tools she has available, including using her ability to get guys to help her like Adela de Otero in Perez-Reverte's The Fencing Master. And all this mystery about her is a much better plot device than making her a simple love interest the hero merely has to impress and win. This gives him a wounded-by-love vib that make heroes appealing. At the same time, it may set up lots of interesting action as he tries to find her, understand her past, help her out of more tight spots, etc.

63Busifer
lokakuu 31, 2008, 2:54pm

On Denna - as this is a work of fantasy I expect her to be of the fae, or something like that. What else could explain her? ;-)
The practical issues may well just be a ruse. Maybe she's in with the chandrian or the aimar (or whatever the opponents were called)?

64MrsLee
lokakuu 31, 2008, 7:18pm

#63 - We only have her word for what happened at that farm, don't we?

65Busifer
marraskuu 1, 2008, 3:19am

Yes, and Kvothe wants to believe in her so may not be very critical...

66Morphidae
marraskuu 1, 2008, 9:58am

I think Mr Ash works with the Chandrians.

67WildMaggie
marraskuu 1, 2008, 11:43am

66. Yeah. But was he putting in all that special effort to get Denna at the wedding? Or to get Denna safely away from the wedding? If the first, is she some kind of homing device for the Chandrians?

68Busifer
marraskuu 1, 2008, 12:01pm

Is Mr Ash even real? I can't remember ever getting more than Denna's word on his existence, and the name sounds eerily like an alias or a made up name...

69clamairy
marraskuu 1, 2008, 3:35pm

#68 - I'm pretty sure she tell Kvothe that Mr Ash is a pseudonym.

70Busifer
marraskuu 1, 2008, 4:37pm

Yes, you' re right... but still we don't get to meet or see him? As I remember it, anyway.

71clamairy
marraskuu 1, 2008, 6:18pm

Nope. Now that you guys mention it, I REALLY don't trust Denna, but I didn't even realize it until now.

72clamairy
marraskuu 1, 2008, 6:19pm

#60 - Thanks for trying, katylit. *hugs* I hope he's well enough to write! :o/

73joiedelivre
marraskuu 2, 2008, 6:53pm

... Coming over from the non-spoiler thread ...

I liked it, but it really suffers from being the first volume of a three-volume novel. Not a trilogy, but a three-volume novel in the 19th-century sense; one story published in three physical volumes. I gather that this is true; the publisher chose to put it out in three pieces, but it was written as one. So the ending was a complete let-down.

Yes, Kvothe-the-adolescent is rather annoying; you'd think he'd have learned something by now about dealing with people. He keeps thinking his conflict with Ambrose is over, and getting blindsided with the next attack. How many times does it take? But I don't really find him to be arrogant. His adoption of Auri is pure kindness; he didn't have to do that. (Ignoring the fact that it's a plot device to get him into the Archives.)

I agree with Janny's take on it, by and large. I will definitely get the next installment. And, if we're having a pool, I'm betting the two story-arcs collide about the middle of book three :-)

74MrsLee
marraskuu 2, 2008, 7:31pm

#73 - "three-volume novel

Having just watched The Importance of Being Earnest, I will now never be able to think of The Name of the Wind without seeing the governess, only, I can't come up with her name. I can hear it being shouted, and see her, but the name won't come.

75katylit
marraskuu 2, 2008, 8:27pm

#74, MrsLee, did you watch the newest version of Ernest with Anna Massey as Miss Prism? I love Anna Massey, she's an excellent actress. And of course anything with Colin Firth in it doesn't leave much to be desired ;-)

76tortoise
marraskuu 2, 2008, 9:53pm

#66-70: I'll be amazed if Mr. Ash doesn't end up being Cinder the Chandrian.

77clamairy
marraskuu 3, 2008, 7:46am

I feel so dense... Ash and Cinder... *blush*

78Morphidae
marraskuu 3, 2008, 8:29am

79katylit
marraskuu 3, 2008, 3:16pm

Ahhhh! Now see? I hadn't made that connection either! So does that mean that Denna is connected with the Chandrian then? 'Cause she's the one who came up with the "Ash" pseudonym didn't she? Hmmmm, curiouser and curiouser.

80cal8769
marraskuu 3, 2008, 3:18pm

Well I'll be... I didn't connect that either. Thank God you are here to help show me the light.

81Choreocrat
marraskuu 3, 2008, 5:54pm

*facepalm*

82readafew
marraskuu 3, 2008, 5:57pm

You know... some days....

83MrsLee
marraskuu 3, 2008, 10:31pm

#76 - I'm so glad I have other people here to make those connections for me, I never find that kind of stuff! Hmmmm.

84clamairy
marraskuu 4, 2008, 8:22am

Well, I'm glad it's not just me. LOLOL

In my/our defense I have to say when see the name Ash I think of the tree and not the fire residue. I have dozens of Ash trees in my yard and half the streets in New England (and any of the other places I've lived in) have tree/plant names.

85Busifer
marraskuu 4, 2008, 9:11am

The Ash/Cinder-connection could also be the show the conjurer displays to be able to work his tricks unnoticed...

86reading_fox
kesäkuu 28, 2011, 4:41am

Ah well 2 and a half years late, but I'll add my thoughts anyway, and it does mean I can go and buy the sequel almost straight away - maybe that should be our next group read?!. ( full review here I thoroughly enjoyed it, and did feel it was fully a Green Dragon sort of book!. But not perfect: I thought it was too long- for a standard recap of life at the University far too many pages were spent. I also like a bit more explanation of the world building in the 1st book of a series, I'm still confused about the religions and the geography and even the normal social structure to some extent.

I found the jarring transitions back to the pub to not work very well - as an intial opening device, fine, but then stay in that mode all the way to the ending. I was impressed with the dragon scenes - all the foreshadowing from the book, and I still didn't expect it. It was more than a chance encounter, because this was the first time he felt like a hero: not killing the dragon, but removing a girl's fear.

FWIW I think Deanna will be fully normal - Kvothe's soul mate - but he won't be able to save her from the Chandrim, and will be another spur that eventually gives him the will power to win.

I'm very curious about Bast - one of the fae I think, but I've no idea why he's so close to Kvothe.

I hope wise man's fear is as good as it needs to be!

87MrsLee
kesäkuu 29, 2011, 7:26pm

I'm glad you added your thoughts, reading_fox, which is also why I love the formats of our group reads. It doesn't matter when you read them, you can still participate!

88Busifer
kesäkuu 30, 2011, 12:27pm

I think I need to reread The Name of the Wind before I tackle Wise Man's Fear because clearly I don't remember as much of it as I had thought! And that WILL have to come later - initially I had pre-ordered but when it failed to materialise I cancelled the order... then it arrived, ages later, and I was fully occupied with other reads. Went to look for it at the bookshop the other day but decided I had no time for a book THAT hefty at the moment :(

#87 - Definitely agree with you on the discussion format!

89Morphidae
kesäkuu 30, 2011, 12:49pm

Yeah, I'm afraid I might need to read Wind again before Fear but I'm worried because I gave Wind only a 7. Do I really want to read a "7" book a second time?

90Busifer
kesäkuu 30, 2011, 1:08pm

#89 - That's one of my issues as well. I did like it, thought it good for a first novel, but... and Fear is a VERY thick book!

91clamairy
kesäkuu 30, 2011, 1:34pm

Isn't there a synopsis online somewhere we can all dip into? My daughter is rereading Wind in prep for Fear but I have NO time for that.

92MrsLee
heinäkuu 1, 2011, 2:48am

#91 - My daughter is doing the same, I think I'll just skim the chapters though. This might work for some:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Name_of_the_Wind#Plot

93dav3r5
syyskuu 13, 2011, 11:10pm

The author actually tackled a summary of book one himself in comic form. It's quite enjoyable:

http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2011/02/our-story-thus-far/

94clamairy
syyskuu 14, 2011, 8:00am

Oh, that looks fabulous. Don't have time to read the whole thing now, but THANK YOU, dav3r2! Have to read that through before I start The Wise Man's Fear.

95JPB
syyskuu 14, 2011, 1:51pm

What struck me was my post #2 from 3 years ago. *THREE YEARS* Where else do we read 3-year-old tidbits but the Internet?

Wow. The Dragon has lasted, hasn't it?

96clamairy
syyskuu 14, 2011, 2:37pm

Yep! Though we have slowed a bit the last month or so, but then the whole of LT seems to have slowed as well. It's that Fall cyclical thing!!

97saltmanz
Muokkaaja: syyskuu 14, 2011, 4:59pm

For those who aren't aware, Tor.com is doing a reread of NotW and WMF, delving into the text in detail. People are picking the books apart, and what they've been able to piece together is absolutely astonishing. You'll see the books in an entirely new light, guaranteed; it's amazing the stuff Rothfuss is hiding in plain sight. Spoilers abound for both books, though, so shy away if you haven't finished them both already.

98yolana
syyskuu 14, 2011, 7:12pm

#97 thanks for the link.