the Freedom From Religion Foundation

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the Freedom From Religion Foundation

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1DeusExLibris
elokuu 28, 2008, 12:54 am

http://ffrf.org/

I'm a bit conflicted about these guys. I really dislike most vocal atheists/agnostics, because they ignore any good religious people, and any good religion has done, focusing on the bad stuff. Also ignoring the fact that many early famous scientists were also pious Christians. I believe in God, and I know plenty of people that believe in some form of deity, and neither they nor I condone what most atheists/agnostics dislike about religion. I want church and sate to stay separate, for state to not dictate gay marriage, abortion, etc. However, I don't think its right to lump people who use religion for control and manipulation, such as Jerry Falwell and so many others, in with people like Ghandi, MLK jr, etc, who have been inspired by their faith to make a positive difference in this world. We don't need to get rid of religion. We need to rid the world of those who would use religion to do evil and prey on the weak.

2Medellia
elokuu 28, 2008, 8:54 am

What about the group leaves you feeling conflicted? You stated that you support the separation of church and state, and that seems to be the primary mission of the group. Glancing over their website, I see no diatribes against, nor generalizations of, religious people.

I believe in God, and I know plenty of people that believe in some form of deity, and neither they nor I condone what most atheists/agnostics dislike about religion.
...Unless you're talking about separation of church & state issues, like gay marriage. You may not know any of those believers (though I find it unlikely), but many, many religious people aren't supporters of separation of church/state.

However, I don't think its right to lump people who use religion for control and manipulation, such as Jerry Falwell and so many others, in with people like Ghandi, MLK jr, etc, who have been inspired by their faith to make a positive difference in this world.
I don't mean this in a snippy way, but you did seem to just lump "most vocal atheists/agnostics" together. (Do you also have problems with vocal Christians/Muslims/Jews/etc? For example, Christians who tell others (good intentions or not) that they're going to Hell?) Many of those people have made positive contributions to society through scientific discoveries which improve our lives, artistic endeavors, social work, overall inspiration (think Lance Armstrong), etc.

We don't need to get rid of religion. We need to rid the world of those who would use religion to do evil and prey on the weak.
On this we're fairly agreed, although I think an important tweak for me would be the discouragement of the more anti-intellectual trends in many American religious venues.

3DeusExLibris
marraskuu 5, 2008, 12:56 pm

Hey Medellia, sorry to take so very long to get back to you. In answer to your question about having problems with vocal theists, I very much do. I have no problem with others believing what they believe. I do have a problem when it encroaches on my or others rights (proselytization, anti-gay marriage activists, anti-abortion activists, etc). I've always gone by the rule that a person's rights end where another's begin, and that includes religion. I have no problems with atheists/agnostics who are willing to dialogue with religion, and theists who are willing to dialogue with science. I do have problems with those who refuse to do so, especially when they make claims that simply aren't true.

4Medellia
marraskuu 6, 2008, 7:26 pm

I'm sure we have a lot to agree on, then.

I do have problems with those who refuse to do so, especially when they make claims that simply aren't true.
Out of curiosity, like what? Are these things that are not true at all, or things that are not true by virtue of being generalizations (ie, true in some but not all cases)?