New LE: 1984

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New LE: 1984

1jsg1976
Muokkaaja: maaliskuu 27, 10:25 am

Coming June 2024. Limited to 750 copies. No other details yet.

"With 2024 set to be the biggest election year in history, where countries with more than half the world’s population will send their citizens to the polls, Orwell’s eerily prophetic novel is given the Folio Limited Edition treatment. Celebrating 75 years of its first publication we’ll be limiting this edition to 750 copies launching in June 2024.

We’ll be revealing illustrator, introducer and imagery of this edition in the coming weeks."

2adriano77
maaliskuu 27, 10:40 am

I like the style of the image they included. Doubt I'll like the price though.

3assemblyman
maaliskuu 27, 10:57 am

I don't know how popular this will be. There seems to be a selection of editions from different publishers out there so FS would have to do something really special and different with this one.

4drizzled
maaliskuu 27, 11:10 am

>3 assemblyman: I agree. A bit odd choice for the LE as "1984" has got already a solid SE, competing with many high quality publications using premium materials on the market. Instead, I would love to see Folio's LE approach for instance to McCarthy

5Pax_Romana
Muokkaaja: maaliskuu 27, 11:25 am

Viestin kirjoittaja on poistanut viestin.

6drizzled
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 1, 9:17 am

>5 Pax_Romana: Only one picture showcased by Folio so far:

7Pax_Romana
maaliskuu 27, 12:05 pm

Viestin kirjoittaja on poistanut viestin.

8SF-72
maaliskuu 27, 12:23 pm

>6 drizzled:

That's a powerful picture.

9BooksFriendsNotFood
maaliskuu 27, 12:47 pm

I’m so excited about this news!! I haven’t been able to find a 1984 edition I liked (Folio, Suntup, trade editions, etc.) and I was wondering if I should give in and get the meh Easton Press edition or just read the ebook but now I have something to look forward to! I hope it’ll be gorgeous.

10wongie
maaliskuu 27, 1:05 pm

Not a title that I feel an instant desire to buy in LE form but the art may sway me if it's good enough to help get over missing the St James Park edition.

11Shadekeep
maaliskuu 27, 1:15 pm

>10 wongie: Same. Though that's a high bar to match.

12astropi
maaliskuu 27, 3:14 pm

>10 wongie: >11 Shadekeep: Agreed. Wish I had the $2500 or so dollars it cost, but it was truly a magnificent edition that I doubt will EVER be matched. For those who are not aware, here it is --
https://www.stjamesparkpress.com/1984

I doubt this will happen, but if the FS edition is letterpress it might very well be a strong second-place contender. FYI here's the letterpress Suntup edition --
https://shop.suntup.press/products/1984-by-george-orwell-numbered-edition

13Shadekeep
maaliskuu 27, 3:30 pm

>6 drizzled: No slam on the artwork, I like it and hope the rest of the book utilises a similarly strong aesthetic. But for people like me who grew up with the earliest videogames, it does look a bit like a box cover for "Activision presents 1984 for the Atari 2600". 😄

14astropi
maaliskuu 27, 4:29 pm

>13 Shadekeep: haha, oh wow, you're so right

15kdweber
maaliskuu 27, 4:41 pm

>6 drizzled: The SJP edition has an illustration utilizing a boot print as well. He literally used a boot sole to print the image.

>13 Shadekeep: >14 astropi: Hey, I still have my Atari 2600 with two doze cartridges in the back of the closet.

16wongie
Muokkaaja: maaliskuu 27, 5:08 pm

>13 Shadekeep: >14 astropi: There's definitely a hint of the repeating elements typical of that era of cover art for game packaging and manuals when ctrl+c ctrl+v was all new and funky (or whatever the shortcuts/commands were back then), along with the colour palette!




17PartTimeBookAddict
maaliskuu 27, 5:52 pm

>13 Shadekeep: Ha ha. Well, it is set in the 80s.

18HonorWulf
maaliskuu 27, 5:59 pm

>16 wongie: I miss my Commodore 64! That was a great machine.

19boldface
maaliskuu 27, 7:58 pm

>16 wongie:

I had a Radio Shack TRS-80 (black and white version!) back in the day. I remember wondering how I was ever going to utilize the whole of that 16K memory.

20Shadekeep
Muokkaaja: maaliskuu 27, 10:59 pm

>18 HonorWulf: Loved the C64! My first was the TI-99/4A, which was terrific fun. But my greatest love was the Amiga.

Anyway, I've digressed enough. It will be interesting to see how this one comes out, might be my first FS LE purchase.

21SF-72
maaliskuu 28, 7:09 am

A friend of mine was reminded of posters from the German Democratic Republic, which fits quite well to 1984.

22Shadekeep
maaliskuu 28, 8:18 am

>21 SF-72: Good point. There are certainly elements of Soviet-era Constructivist art at play in the revealed image, hopefully more of that to come.

23astropi
maaliskuu 28, 1:21 pm

Just want to make sure all you C64 fans know that this exists, and it's super inexpensive :)

24A.Godhelm
maaliskuu 28, 8:17 pm

>6 drizzled: I'm really digging this. It's some combination of propaganda poster art with the visual leanings of 80s graphic design. It's also a great way to illustrate the "boot stomping on a human face forever". If the rest of it is in this vein I'll jump on it.
In general I like the bold designs more than most. I think the PKD books many think are just garish are beautiful. Strong colours, bold design, right into my heart.

25GusLogan
Muokkaaja: maaliskuu 29, 4:42 am

I’d also consider looking further back for influences: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:La_musica,_Luigi_Russolo.jpg

26astropi
maaliskuu 29, 3:11 pm

>25 GusLogan: +1 for Luigi Russolo -- absolutely wonderful. I would LOVE for someone to do a truly fine press (letterpress) illustrated edition of The Art of Noises
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Noises

27Shadekeep
maaliskuu 29, 4:10 pm

>25 GusLogan: Indeed, strong Futurist influences as well. Futurism was pretty much simultaneous with Constructivism, starting just a bit after it, and had even more energetic properties. Constructivism captured space, Futurism captured motion.

I hope they drop another image soon, though also keep some secret for the folks who buy the book.

28GusLogan
Muokkaaja: maaliskuu 31, 1:13 am

>26 astropi:
Sign me up! (I used to live near the Estorick Collection in north London, a good way to develop an interest in Futurism.)

29drizzled
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 1, 9:24 am

Folio published a sneak peek of some illustrations. They are done by La Boca.

https://www.foliosociety.com/row/nineteen-eighty-four-sign-up







30wongie
toukokuu 1, 9:50 am

Look like they've followed the St James Park Press approach of focusing on illustrating the propaganda itself rather than previous editions that illustrate scenes. It's certainly increased my interest in getting a copy.

31red_guy
toukokuu 1, 10:13 am

La Boca are the perfect choice! Do I need a third copy, though?

32Shadekeep
toukokuu 1, 10:17 am

>29 drizzled: I quite like that!

33Dr.Fiddy
toukokuu 1, 10:43 am

>29 drizzled: I think that looks great! If I didn’t have the SJPP edition, I would have bought this one…

34islandbooks
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 1, 11:39 am

I read '1984' in 1980, when I was 19 years old. (I read it again it somewhere around 2000). I am now 62 and think the world as it looks now is a terrible place to live in.
I wouldn't want to read the book again because it would depress me, but I think it's good that Folio Society is republishing it. Although I wonder what the target group would be. Personally, I would like this book to be required reading for all young adults.

The details of this book are yet to come. If it is indeed a very nice edition, I might still buy it, but then as a monument to be preserved for future generations.

35ubiquitousuk
toukokuu 1, 11:51 am

I am curious what this will mean for the SE that has been in print for years. It wouldn't be unprecedented for a modern LE to sit alongside a more stale SE (LotR is perhaps an even more stark example), but I still find it a bit weird to persist in selling the old edition when all the design work for the new one has been done.

The early glimpses in >29 drizzled: look promising. But I rarely get excited about folio LEs that seem to charge fine press prices without the corresponding production values, so I'm unlikely to buy unless there is a refreshed SE on offer.

36willraven
toukokuu 1, 1:34 pm

The art looks incredible, but as people have mentioned above, I’m not sure whether to commit to the LE or wait for a potential SE in the future with the same art.

I purchased the LE of Gormenghast, but was equally impressed with the SE and have “downgraded” recently.

37astropi
toukokuu 1, 2:53 pm

Although I do not own the St James Park Press 1984, as I've noted, there's no doubt that will be THE greatest 1984 ever produced. That said, the illustrations for the FS edition are stunning. I would absolutely love for it to be letterpress, but I am sure it will be printed offset. Given that, I can see the FS edition being an excellent second-choice, but in a different league than the SJPP edition.

38boldface
toukokuu 1, 7:18 pm

Interesting illustrations, though I'm not sure why Oliver Hardy is among them! Anyway, I think I'm quite happy with my Clarendon Press edition, published in ... 1984, with the date at the bottom of the title-page as a sinister reminder.

39astropi
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 1, 11:11 pm

40CobbsGhost
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 2, 7:45 am

The book resonates to more individuals than it did probably because the Godless Socialist types are more prevalent. To me, the book was written for a young audience and our understanding and depth has sunk as a race to that level... Anyway, sexual obsession and government spying/control isn't really earth shattering insight. Interesting book, but not really worth the LE ticket for me.

The artwork seems fitting, I think. It's also different from many of the more recent, fine editions, that I've seen of late.

41Shadekeep
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 2, 11:24 am

>40 CobbsGhost: I wouldn't confuse accessible writing for juvenile writing. And more than once it's been pointed out how a lot of deliberately YA fiction deals better with adult topics than purportedly adult fiction. Whatever one's slant on this book, it remains an important, complex, and prescient novel. I would say its current popularity stems from the proliferation of exactly the kind of populist, autocratic uprisings who effectively use propaganda that the novel portrays. Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

(revised for clarity)

>38 boldface: "Stanley, we need to move this piano to Room 101."

42CobbsGhost
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 2, 10:35 am

>41 Shadekeep:

I didn't mean juvenile, I meant younger, perhaps even learned. There's a space in time where you believe truth is relative and knowledge can be usefully created, and that span lasts a lifetime now. It's interesting that you believe that a singular political side is directly responsible for this march. There's relatively little difference in left- and right-wing tyranny in the end. They start differently but they don't end that way, the only similarity is self-worship. I've seen the political spectrum graphically depicted as a circle rather than a line and that is clearly more accurate. In the U.S., both political parties oversee our forward march into government control. It's been very incremental since the very early 20th century, in part due to industry and in part due to the slow death of adventure, into an obsession with pleasure. The people are accurately and appropriately represented by the government. All nations die this same death. In the U.S., each political side just points to the other and their followers gladly respond with the fear of losing what they think they hold dearest. So, I don't think Orwell got the side wrong, those that love money and power often fall into corruption and the only way to protect your lies is to let them grow. Orwell has no foundation for his fake morals, so he couldn't tell the difference... He was just staring at the politics of the day. It never really changes; we just think we get smarter.

43HonorWulf
toukokuu 2, 10:59 am

Yes, by his own words, Orwell's main warning with 1984 was against "centralised economies", in which a few determine the economic fate of the many. Regardless of whether this occurs from a left-leaning or a right-leaning government, it always ends in corruption, perversion and, eventually, societal collapse. This was true then and remains true today as human nature hasn't changed much in the interim years.

44Shadekeep
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 2, 11:23 am

>43 HonorWulf: Exactly so. I've long held that the political spectrum isn't a line but a circle, with the far extremes meeting on nearly identical ground in practice, if not in principle. I was born in a time when one extreme threatened, and now live during a time when the other does so. The commonality seems to be the suffering of those under such regimes. An autocrat is an autocrat, and benevolence is never part of their equation.

45TheEconomist
toukokuu 2, 11:24 am

I suspect that Orwell felt that the problems with the extreme right were pretty obvious, but at the time there were many people who should have known better who were turning a blind eye to the problems with the extreme left, and these people were the target audience for Animal Farm and 1984.

If you read through the publications of the Left Book Club throughout the 1930s, the naivety is astonishing - I remember reading a phrase in one volume (published at the height of Stalin's purges, and therefore after the Holodomor) which went something like "Isn't it wonderful that we now have a Socialist country, which will show the world what Socialism is capable of!"

Mind you, in one sense, this was entirely correct.

46Joshbooks1
toukokuu 2, 12:17 pm

>40 CobbsGhost: I completely agree. Going back several years ago rereading 1984 was a different experience than when I was younger. The first time I read it in my teenage years it was earth shattering and the second time, enjoyable, but a book I'll never pick up again. It's a solid book: linear, exciting, thought provoking, easy to read, and has been copied quite a bit since its publication; although different subjects it its similar to something like Catcher in the Rye. The bread and butter of Orwell's oeuvre are his essays.

>41 Shadekeep: "And more than once it's been pointed out how a lot of deliberately YA fiction deals better with adult topics than purportedly adult fiction"
That is quite a generalized and subjective statement posed as factual. Not quite sure how much truth it holds.

47Shadekeep
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 2, 1:04 pm

>46 Joshbooks1: That is quite a generalized and subjective statement posed as factual. Not quite sure how much truth it holds.

And that's a binary and passive-aggressive way of reading my statement. I guess the utter absence of children's and young adult works from the canon shows how wrong I am. Still, if this is the best thing you can call me out for in comradely defense of your fellow poster, I don't feel I'm on shaky ground. It doesn't sound like facts would matter anyway in this particular exchange.

48Joshbooks1
toukokuu 2, 3:39 pm

>47 Shadekeep: That's not a slight on 1984, children's literature or young adult literature - all are great and have their place. I'm not trying to call you out but your statement is comparing apples to oranges. Sure, some YA fiction is great with adult topics, but better? I'm not so sure.

49islandbooks
toukokuu 3, 11:19 am

>37 astropi:
On Abebooks there's a copy for sale from the St James Park edition for the mighty sum of US 12,995...

50Tuna_Melon
toukokuu 3, 12:15 pm

>49 islandbooks: (& >37 astropi:) On Abebooks there's a copy for sale from the St James Park edition for the mighty sum of US 12,995...

Wow! After reading your post, I looked this up and I saw that there is also a prospectus for the book available from a different seller for US $322.90 (plus shipping of course, naturally).

51drizzled
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 8, 10:45 am

Some more sneak peeks of the upcoming LE from the current catalog:









52SF-72
toukokuu 8, 11:33 am

>51 drizzled:

Thank you for sharing this here.

53A.Godhelm
toukokuu 8, 12:29 pm

>51 drizzled: Thanks for the peek. To my eye that looks stout for a ~300 page book. Maybe there's a lot of extras? Or it's just a mockup illustration with no real bearing on the final product other than design of course. Loving the heavy graphical style so far.

54A.Nobody
toukokuu 8, 1:14 pm

Here's the link.

55What_What
toukokuu 8, 9:36 pm

>49 islandbooks: Are you by any chance the Island Books from Abe's?

56EPsonNY
toukokuu 9, 7:54 am

Cover and possibly slipcase design make it an almost companion to Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism set.

Attempting to emulate St. James Press's approach may backfire as there are only that many propaganda posters that can be original. Borrowing from game box art or recycling adverts seems simple and perhaps innovative in its simplicity and 1980s period homage; however, should most illustrations look like pieces of rainbow (far from ominous), the book risks paying homage to the 80s only rather than to the book's content and author's intent/message.

57What_What
toukokuu 9, 9:22 am

>56 EPsonNY: That’s a good take - the palette on a couple of those looks too much like a crayon box, or something else that evokes joy and innocence.

58EPsonNY
toukokuu 9, 9:41 pm

>57 What_What: The one with Earth and "Hate arrows" looks a bit like Sanitation Service poster encouraging plastics recycling ;).

1984 brings to mind to me Edward's Munch's painting The Scream with the book being that silent scream of warning. To us the new 1984 is rather 2034 or 2044, bleak future more closer than ever where a totalitarian system gradually takes over our bodies (abortion access anybody?) and minds (book bans anybody?).

Such terrifying vision calls for incisive art not a tribute to 1980s as a box of crayons it is not... St. James Press was able to achieve it; however, based on the preliminary art, Folio Society's plan to reduce 1984 to a children's book full of colorful but perhaps lazy AI generated digital imagery that instead a sending a shiver down our spines with a silent scream tries to pull rainbow-colored wool over our eyes to mask the true terrors of totalitarian regimes, is the wrong approach to take.

59LeBacon
toukokuu 10, 8:24 am

>58 EPsonNY: The St. James Press version looked a lot more cohesive. None of these look like they belong in the same book.

60santiamen
toukokuu 10, 8:30 am

>58 EPsonNY: AI generated imagery? It might not be to your taste but why insult designers who spent decades honing their skill?

Orwell didn't write his novel to reflect what is going to happen in the 2040s and the art is supposed to reflect the story, not what you think represents our world almost a century later.

61EPsonNY
toukokuu 10, 8:56 am

>60 santiamen: Orwell did not write 1984 to pay homage to the 1980s period. Period. You clearly misunderstood my statement about 2040s. Orwell's novel is a prescient warning about the future that he felt was around the corner. With current divisive political climate and recent developments/conflicts/extremist-nationalist resurgence this bleak future may be closer than ever...

Currently available colorful imagery does not evoke the spirit of the novel nor the story, really. Furthermore, it does look a bit like AI generated imagery (and cheap imitation of St. James Press's effort) and it is difficult to see decades worth of honed skills in a picture of "Hate" resembling a plastics/glass recycling bin advert with superimposed bomber planes or basic tombstone/gravestone chiseled messages. These can easily be done by a high school student with access to basic photo editing software.

62SF-72
toukokuu 10, 9:32 am

The new art works really well for me since it imitates typical propaganda art from such systems really well. But there's definitely also room for bleak types of illustrations that depict the mood rather than what the state in the novel uses to manipulate people, and there are such editions. I haven't bought it myself, but I think the previous FS edition of 1984 was in that vein. I find this one a lot more interesting, but tastes differ.

63What_What
toukokuu 10, 9:40 am

The book was written in 1948, speculating about a future 40 years away. I don’t feel there’s anything necessarily “right” about using styles from the early 80s as we know it. The style and mood could be drawn from any period really, once it’s aligned with the actual descriptions within the book of course.

64santiamen
toukokuu 10, 11:04 am

>61 EPsonNY: It wasn't really a warning of the future though, was it? It was inspired by what had already happened in the USSR at the very least.

The colourful imagery as you describe it looks like an attempt at propaganda posters, which would make it pretty spot on. The lives in totalitarian regimes might have been grey and bleak but the propaganda posters were obviously selling an image of glory and success, what with being just deceitful ads. The real ones in the Soviet Bloc were also colourful, pretty hideous and definitely didn't need to try very hard to be clever or original since there was zero competition and they had to adhere to the message first and foremost.

These are some random propaganda posters from the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic (my country) and they sure don't look bleak in design, even if in content they're full of s*it.















65EPsonNY
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 10, 12:45 pm

>64 santiamen: Your selection is very cohesive and if Folio emulated that I would likely buy the book. For instance, Labor Day was supposed to be festive and celebratory as it was a Holiday and it is reflected in the approach. Communism's anti-capitalist approach also needed a clear and stern message.

‘La Boca have a unique style which combines bold colours and strong graphic imagery. Their reputation for pushing creative boundaries made them the perfect fit for this project.

For Nineteen-Eighty-Four, a novel with dystopian, political, and psychological commentary, their artistic approach provides a visually interesting interpretation that captures the oppressive atmosphere of Orwell's world. By using a mix retro and contemporary elements they bring a unique vision to the project.’

From the sample of work, it is hard to see the oppressive atmosphere and all. Our today's idea of a capitalist could use a Gordon Gekko (Greed is Good) upgrade with slickly pomaded hair and touting crypto rather than being surrounded by stacks of coins...

> On a different note, it there a cover designer listed for the LE as Lesley Barnes' artwork looks eerily similar to the LE's cover artwork:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/61502351134944456/

66BooksFriendsNotFood
toukokuu 10, 12:54 pm

>62 SF-72: I really love the artwork as well!

67Cat_of_Ulthar
toukokuu 10, 2:36 pm

>59 LeBacon: 'None of these look like they belong in the same book.'

Why should they? If you're 'them' you have to appeal to, or scare the quivering beejesus out of, everybody, otherwise you ain't gonna cut it in the Big Brother stakes.

68drizzled
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 8, 1:20 pm

From Folio's Instagram profile:



Will become available on June 24th.
I like the design of solander's box but not a fan of those other bits and pieces, frankly speaking

69EPsonNY
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 8, 6:04 pm

>68 drizzled: Harry Potter trunk edition does come to mind. It was published with a set of stickers to customize the trunk to one's liking...

Solander box seems to be a a bit boring black speckled silver-board to which 20-year or 30-year old children may attach the "bits and pieces," thus ruining future collectible resale value ;).

70DMulvee
kesäkuu 8, 1:41 pm

>68 drizzled: Those stickers look tacky! Not sure this will be one for me

71Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 9, 10:58 pm

If the edges aren't spray painted, the books is hand bound by book artisans and the materials the book is bound in are to my taste, iam in for it.

The gimmicks beside the book and the Slipcase or Solander box don't interest me in the least and I don't pay Folio premium prices for such stuff.

72abysswalker
kesäkuu 8, 2:44 pm

>68 drizzled: looks like in series with The Origins of Totalitarianism, which is fitting, and perhaps suggests the disposition of the likely follow-up standard edition.

I'd guess cloth for the LE and paper over the boards for my imagined standard, given past precedent.

73A.Godhelm
kesäkuu 8, 4:18 pm

>69 EPsonNY: I wonder if that's the intention.

I've liked the graphical elements so far but stickers scream rebellious teenagers more than it does oppressive regime. Including more propaganda posters would have made more sense.

74EPsonNY
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 8, 8:02 pm

>73 A.Godhelm: For me, the solander box is a missed opportunity for a lenticular gimmick that Folio used in WE by Zamyatin :)...

Posters would not fit into the box, so you would rather get propaganda postcards. Stickers do look like teenager-aimed tacky downloadable online templates from paid template-aggregator websites. All is missing is a fridge magnet, a Big Brother finger puppet or stuffed Big Brother with a Press Me button - press it once, it bellows War, press it again, it whispers Peace :D...

75BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 8, 9:36 pm

Obviously I love it but I just wanted to share a sneak peek from Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C71U9jYtdte/?igsh=dDh0Y2kzbXh0c3Uy

76BooksFriendsNotFood
kesäkuu 9, 5:38 pm

Also one of the items in the picture shared is a SPIES membership patch according to La Boca's social media.

77EPsonNY
kesäkuu 9, 8:14 pm

>76 BooksFriendsNotFood: Did they mention whether it is an iron-on or a stitch-on patch? I can do the first myself, but I have to pay my tailor to attach the second ;)...

78astropi
kesäkuu 9, 8:43 pm

>68 drizzled: Thanks for the pic! It would be interesting to know what are people's overall impression of ephemera such as patches, stickers, etc? My personal opinion, I'm not a fan. Perhaps it's a bit of OCD, but I hate having to keep all of that stuff and worrying I'll somehow lose something :)
If I had my druthers, I'd rather just have those as little illustrations throughout the book, such as chapter headers etc. Or, it would be cool if they were inserted throughout the book, perhaps hand-tipped. All that said, the art itself is lovely.

79wcarter
kesäkuu 9, 9:54 pm

The ephemera are useless rubbish and turn me off buying this book (and other similarly "enhanced" books from other publishers). I agree with >78 astropi:, if you are going to have them, bind them imto the book.

81SF-72
kesäkuu 9, 11:00 pm

>78 astropi:

I agree, especially with stickers - they seem just silly. Some people do frame prints, at least, though that's also not that likely in my experience. The only instance of something like this that I found kind of amusing was a limited edition of Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. It included a collection of ephemera (fictional newspaper clippings connected to the story and I know not what) directly connected to the book and rather lovingly made by the artist, all inside its own container that fit into the solander box. But having a loose collection of extras like FS did here isn't my cup of tea at all.

That being said, the style of the illustrations really works for me. Maybe if they do a standard edition without the extras and at what I'm sure would be a more bearable price than the limited edition.

82SF-72
kesäkuu 9, 11:06 pm

And I just read in the article under >80 Ragnaroekk: that there are only 7 illustrations inside the book. I really wish they'd put the extras in there instead of on stickers.

Thank you for the link, that's an interesting article.

83wcarter
kesäkuu 9, 11:51 pm

After reading the article supplied by >80 Ragnaroekk: it seems the ephemera are at least contained within pockets in the book covers.

84adriano77
kesäkuu 10, 1:30 am

The binding is okay, doesn't look particularly special for a LE, given what I'd imagine will be a very high price. The stickers (really?) just seem a bit tacky to me.

85cronshaw
kesäkuu 10, 5:18 am

Only seven illustrations is underwhelming. Did Big Brother blow the budget on non-print propaganda?

86bacchus.
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 10, 6:07 am

>85 cronshaw: Yeah, and even though the G.I. Joe stickers offer real production value there’s only 6 of them - for the price I expected FS to throw in a rat cage at the very least.

>69 EPsonNY: I believe the solander box is meant to be CRT static

87drizzled
kesäkuu 10, 6:52 am

>86 bacchus.: >69 EPsonNY: CRT static was my impression too.

>85 cronshaw: Well, that's a pity, seven is rather underwhelming, indeed. Now, I am more interested in its pricing which should stay around £295-350 to be competitive. Am I too optimistic?

88BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 10, 7:35 am

>77 EPsonNY: 😆

>80 Ragnaroekk: Thank you for sharing the article!

89A.Godhelm
kesäkuu 10, 8:09 am

>87 drizzled: The low effort LEs have been around 295 with titles that aren't anywhere near as popular. I can't imagine this being that low. I'd guess 350 or higher.

>85 cronshaw: It really seems like they put a lot of the potential into the gimmicky extras rather than the main production. I was so excited for this one too. It's between this or the Suntup one for me.

90EPsonNY
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 10, 9:23 am

>80 Ragnaroekk: Thank you. Funny how sometimes these promotional paid for puff pieces find their way here...

Apparently 5/7 illustrations shown in the article (6th being the capitalist and 7th the stone slogans carving), which seems extremely low effort for a LE of a book of this caliber. It appears La Boca swung it primarily in Photoshop and spent most of time and money on "fonts and layout" as well as a sheet of stickers that "mimic propaganda" as "words can have a powerful meaning, both for good and evil." Don't forget that "there are also two folded posters inside the front cover." Oh yes, and a patch, hopefully iron-on for the eager do-it-yourself crowd :).

DISCLAIMER: Below website and product are not endorsed by or directly affiliated with me, but some US customers who are tempted by the patch may find the product useful:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Black-Decker-Easy-Steam-Compact-Iron-IR02V-T/49840437

How strong is adhesive on these stickers? Do they come off once applied to slipcase? How much will value of a book decrease when book, slipcase or both are defaced with these slogan stickers?

Why not spend they money on additional 3-5 illustrations and more appealing Solander box (CRT static is spot on!)? Why not spend the money Suntup-style on an attractive bookmark like with War Horse?

91drizzled
kesäkuu 10, 10:35 am

>89 A.Godhelm: I know but looking at the content or the full package here, it doesn't scream high effort. And the book presumably is going to be cloth bound, not leather

92David_Mauduit
kesäkuu 10, 11:05 am

>91 drizzled: Based on the video on Instagram where they show the screenprinting process of the cover it looks like paper.
But I could be wrong.

93Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 10, 11:36 am

I repeat myself, but if this book will be hand bound I will not be able to resist and buy it... I doubt it though.

94RATBAG.
kesäkuu 10, 3:49 pm

It's a visually expressive edition, but after SJPP's edition of 1984, every press should just call it quits at this point.

95astropi
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 10, 7:43 pm

>94 RATBAG.: No doubt the SJPP edition of 1984 is spectacular, and easily the finest 1984 that is likely to be produced. That said, it was £2284 -- or $3000 USD (now much more on the second-hand market). I don't know many people that could pony up that kind of money. I truly wish SJPP offered a cheaper option, but alas. At any rate, my point was I definitely think there is room for another beautiful edition that is more budge-friendly for bibliophiles with smaller incomes. I assume that the FS edition will be printed offset, which is also unfortunate. The other true fine-press edition I'm aware of is the Suntup numbered 1984. However, Suntup's illustrations while certainly appropriate and well-done are far less attractive than either the SJPP or forthcoming FS edition in my opinion.

96pse1
kesäkuu 10, 8:05 pm

>89 A.Godhelm: I’m assuming that, reflecting the relatively limited page count, and the lack of a leather binding, that the price will be £295 or less. If not I won’t consider it especially as I have earlier FS standard editions of 1984.

I quite like the ephemera that will come with the LE but the binding and paper type are far more important than posters/stickers/tea towels etc.

97Inceptic
kesäkuu 11, 12:29 am

A paperbound LE for £295 is a no-go for me.

98What_What
kesäkuu 11, 1:31 pm

>94 RATBAG.: That’s just silly. Surely more than 75 people still want to own an fine edition of the book.

99Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 11, 3:42 pm

>94 RATBAG.:
It has to feel good to be rich. You are talking about a wonderful production, that is very expensive and for the most people simply not affordable.
Some people survive a couple of months with that money the book costs.

If Folio society will do another SE too with the new illustrations I would buy the book again, same for the LoTR and upcoming The Hobbit.

100RATBAG.
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 11, 4:47 pm

>95 astropi: Completely agree with that sentiment.

>98 What_What: Obviously. And there's a good amount to choose from published prior to the SJPP edition.

>99 Ragnaroekk: True, but then again, not many people are going to dish out that much cash for a lavish fine press edition when they can just settle for a paperback and/or any other illustrated edition.

101Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 12, 2:11 am

>100 RATBAG.:
People are crazy for illustrated deluxe editions. There are so many good selling editions from the big publishers that sell for 50 to 150€
If it happens that on the spine is an author combination of "King" and "Stephen," the book will sell out in minutes, often not illustrated.

102What_What
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 13, 4:39 pm

>100 RATBAG.: You’re agreeing with everyone’s rebuttal of your comment like if it was someone else that said it, lol - that presses should just stop making other editions because another edition (>$3k at retail and over $10k on Abe’s) exists.

103RATBAG.
kesäkuu 14, 9:56 pm

>102 What_What: I didn't mean it in a way that would prevent an accessible fine press edition to be made available for purchase. I was highlighting the ubiquity of the title and how many times it's been published.

104drizzled
kesäkuu 17, 11:09 am

Another promo material from Folio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh8hnDr6_UE&si=r-Lgmxsu3SvjzC3l

One of the Facebook users from the FoFS group noted, though, that the book in the video already shows the colouring rubbing off the cloth:



I don't understand why so many Folios are prone to printings rubbing off, no matter LEs or not. Those books are not cheap, and that seems like a constant quality issue or a flawed (cost-based) production process.

105CobbsGhost
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 17, 11:28 am

oops.

106abysswalker
kesäkuu 17, 12:10 pm

>104 drizzled: not 100% sure, but that looks like a printed paper over boards to me rather than cloth.

107Maretzo
kesäkuu 17, 12:21 pm

A square back : no way! It will be hollow in no time.

108cronshaw
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 17, 2:02 pm

>107 Maretzo: Not necessarily. I have a few Folios with square spines now (including 2001: Space Odyssey, and Rama) and they've remained perfectly fine after regular handling, they feel very solid and firm.

The off-putting aspect for me here is the apparent rubbing off of the colour from the edge of the boards in the video at 2m 47s as shown above. More evidence that Folio is going for perceived value via illustrations, gimmicks and overall visual impact rather than the quality of underlying materials. This is poor quality control for a promotional video.

109cwl
kesäkuu 17, 2:22 pm

It’s somewhat reassuring by now to be in the camp that hasn’t felt any real desire to own any LE released since Rabelais. Oh well; never mind.

110Inceptic
kesäkuu 17, 5:49 pm

>106 abysswalker: Looks like printed paper to me too. Shame.

111BooksFriendsNotFood
kesäkuu 17, 6:38 pm

I'm obsessed with this! It's unexpectedly & delightfully large, whereas I thought it'd be the size of The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet. I expected this to be lovely but nothing we haven't seen Folio do before with other LEs, but I'm excited all over again :D I loved the sprayed edges on Roadside Picnic so I'm very excited for that aspect as well. I was more or less indifferent - but still supportive - toward the paraphernalia earlier but I like how it's turned out! I'm excited to play around with it in-person and then neatly put it back in its little folder/cubby.

Also, I love seeing how neatly the edges are turned in &etc. because I picked up (and then shortly returned) one of the very expensive Taschen Marvel collector's editions earlier this year and I really hated how cheap it looked because of how carelessly the handmade aspects were done, whereas Folio has never disappointed in that regard.

I've been waiting to read 1984 for the first time for at least half a year now because I was waiting for a beautiful enough edition and FS has really come through for me. 🫡

112A.Godhelm
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 17, 9:04 pm

Ok so they explained the stickers in the video. They're in a hidden compartment and
"They create the sense of a kind of underground resistance movement"
Except they don't. They're the slogans of the regime. "War is Peace", "Big Brother is Watching", "Freedom Is Slavery", "Ignorance is Strength". There's nothing about their design that indicates some sort of irony or objection either. There's some massive cockup between the conceptually interesting idea of having a hidden compartment with resistance stickers (which I can actually get behind), and the actual execution.

>111 BooksFriendsNotFood: I'm glad someone is pleased & I'm sure the book itself won't disappoint.

113Ragnaroekk
kesäkuu 18, 2:11 am

>104 drizzled:
Somebody interviewed and informed Folio Society about this already ? Would like to hear a statement .

114cronshaw
kesäkuu 18, 3:52 am

>112 A.Godhelm: Quite. A monumental cockup of concept. La Boca should rebrand themselves La Loca if that's their reasoning.

115evilsooty999
kesäkuu 18, 8:57 am

Same thing happened with my Atlas Shrugged copy.

Beautfiul red and black cover, but the red smeared into the white after a few hours of handling.

116DMulvee
kesäkuu 18, 9:07 am

>115 evilsooty999: Mine as well though I thought I was careful!

117BooksFriendsNotFood
kesäkuu 18, 9:53 am

>112 A.Godhelm: Thank you! I’ve only read Animal Farm by Orwell so far so I’m excited to finally read this.

118BooksFriendsNotFood
kesäkuu 18, 12:23 pm

An unused illustration by La Boca. It’s kind of cool how they subverted the original art.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8UVYW8i-oX/?igsh=MXA3YTAwZ2Njemhvdg==

119RogerBlake
kesäkuu 18, 12:26 pm

>115 evilsooty999: obviously someone at Folio thought the title was "Atlas Smudged"
:-)

But I agree - this is happening with far too many of the recent Folio titles ...

120evilsooty999
kesäkuu 18, 12:48 pm

Haha yeah.

Clearly some quality control issues going on.

121pse1
kesäkuu 18, 1:27 pm

I quite like the look for the book and will buy it if it's not a silly price. The only graphic I dislike intensely is the Oliver Hardy photo. I guess that was cheap as out of copyright!

😂😂😂

122What_What
kesäkuu 19, 6:33 am

>112 A.Godhelm: Thank you. I was so confused when I heard him say that in the video. What is going on over there.

123BooksFriendsNotFood
kesäkuu 20, 11:09 pm

Regarding >112 A.Godhelm:'s interesting point, based on some explanations of the stickers by La Boca, I think it's just the hidden compartment that's meant to evoke a resistance movement and not the stickers themselves. La Boca's explanations of those are below:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8ZU8NLiSkv/?hl=en&img_index=1: "The stickers aim to show how The Party could have utilised design and propaganda to spread, and therefore normalise, the condradictions of their official slogan: “War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength”. The unnerving aspect being that similar tactics are still in action in front of us today. Beware Slogans."

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8cJ_VvRjyg/?hl=en&img_index=1: "We designed this metallic sticker to be included in our upcoming edition of 1984 for foliosociety 👀 We wanted to play with the idea that graphics employed by Totalitarian states in the past, often do not look as bleak as the societies they rule over."

124santiamen
kesäkuu 24, 9:11 am

It's out for 500 GBP.

125Aleks3000
kesäkuu 24, 9:14 am

Just recevied an email with an early purchase link.

£500 / $1,045 AUD / $750 USD

- Limited to 750 hand-numbered copies
- Limitation tip printed letterpress on Arena Smooth paper and signed by Elif Shafak and La Boca
- Bound in metallic silk paper screen-printed in 3 colours with a design by the artist
- 8 illustrations printed on Tatami Ivory paper
- Printed page edges
- Ribbon marker
- Ispira endpapers printed with a design by the artist
- Presentation box bound in screen-printed metallic paper
- Exclusive print, stickers and patch within a presentation folder
- Set in Nexus Serif with Ayer Deck Bold as display and sections set in Broadsheet
- Main text printed in 2-colours on Munken Pure paper
- 320 pages
- 10.5˝ x 8.5˝

126wongie
kesäkuu 24, 9:38 am

Hmm. I do like the overall look of this but I'm just not feeling it. Maybe it's the price that's putting me off; yet I had no qualms about dropping 500 for Origin of Species the moment it released which I actually found a bit disappointing in the design department...

For now I don't mind giving this one a miss, maybe once the low stock counter appears or the "over X sold" announcement goes out I'll see how I feel at that point though given La Boca's track record, I suspect I'm subconsciously holding out on the standard edition in the footsteps of the PKD short stories.

127santiamen
kesäkuu 24, 9:44 am

60 have sold already

128abysswalker
kesäkuu 24, 9:47 am

I'm not really a fan of either the overall design or the illustrations, so I am probably not the intended audience for this one, even separate from material concerns.

That said, paper backing, and paper over the hinges, is almost always a no-go for me, even for non-deluxe editions, unless it's a strong artistic statement like Tallone, or something fancy like Cave paper and a historical binding (thinking here of the Taller Martin Green Knight or the Foolscap Mandeville). This looks like a standard casing job.

Munken Pure is also a totally respectable paper, but nothing special.

129A.Godhelm
kesäkuu 24, 9:59 am

I was really excited for this, but having seen all the art at this point, the hidden compartment bungle, and at 500GBP? I'll get a copy of the Suntup edition instead.
I'm sure this will rise in the secondary market though, and I liked La Boca's work on other books (Ubik), and bold/stylistic design choices in general (the PKD books). It just didn't come together for me here.

130pse1
kesäkuu 24, 10:13 am

£500 seems to be a ridiculous amount bearing in mind the materials used in this LE. I would have considered £300 but not almost twice that price.

131HonorWulf
kesäkuu 24, 10:17 am

>130 pse1: And the US price is $750, which is a $115 premium above today's exchange rate.

132Inceptic
kesäkuu 24, 10:29 am

Another SE at LE prices. Easy pass.

133MobyRichard
kesäkuu 24, 10:32 am

Yeah...pass. I'll keep my Suntup gift edition.

134Dr.Fiddy
kesäkuu 24, 10:40 am

I'm not buying this one, but I really hope what I see isn’t indicative of the (non-)quality of future LEs...

135cronshaw
kesäkuu 24, 10:50 am

£500? Good grief.

136antinous_in_london
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 24, 11:16 am

“Order now to lock in a low number ! “. Er… yeah right

137Ragnaroekk
kesäkuu 24, 11:45 am

500£ for not even an half leather binding.
Urgh.
I would wish that there quality controls would be half as good as their marketing propaganda seems to be.
A big pass for me. Let's hope the Neuromancer book will be more reasonable priced and better in terms of materials used.

138SF-72
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 24, 12:21 pm

£500 for what's being offered here feels inappropriate. I'd at least expect a good cloth binding and more illustrations would be appreciated in this price range, too.

edited to add: And it's another case where I found out on here what's up with FS. No email for me, and I've bought quite a lot of their limited editions over time.

139HonorWulf
kesäkuu 24, 1:01 pm

>138 SF-72: There is something to be said about being able to buy the "standard" cloth version for $70 and the "limited" paper version for $750...

140boldface
kesäkuu 24, 1:03 pm

More Stickers in a secret folder . . .

Less is More
Economy is Premium
Paper is Leather
Expensive is Cheap
$750 is £500
SE is LE
Limitation is Running Out
FOMO is FOMO

141cwl
kesäkuu 24, 2:18 pm

>140 boldface: Spot on. This edition symbolises all that has gone wrong with FS’s recent direction. They’ve also gone straight for £500 instead of the older psychological £495 price points, which is cute.

142PartTimeBookAddict
kesäkuu 24, 4:14 pm

Looks cool. Great design. I like the TV static text block edges. Fun to have a container for all the ephemera. I really dig what La Boca does.

Out of my price range, but so what. I've read it a few times before.

I haven't heard of the introducer, Elif Shafak. Has anyone here read her novels? My library has "The Island of Missing Trees" and "The Bastard of Istanbul". Are either of these good?

143SF-72
kesäkuu 24, 5:11 pm

144Unbroken1
kesäkuu 24, 5:14 pm

>140 boldface: Don't you see? They're celebrating the book by putting out propaganda of their own!

This plus the recent flash sales sets a very, very troubling precedent.

145venkysuniverse
kesäkuu 24, 5:28 pm

146bacchus.
kesäkuu 24, 5:49 pm

>140 boldface: Brilliant :)

147EPsonNY
kesäkuu 24, 6:27 pm

>135 cronshaw: Daylight robbery & massive La Cockup, but what snappy marketing, $750 4 750 with soon to come $1000 4 1000!

>140 boldface: Two thumbs up!

148BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 24, 8:21 pm

It looks like 191 copies have sold so far. (I have nothing better to do because they haven't released a video presenting just the book lol.)

149Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 24, 10:08 pm

It wouldn't be good if this edition sells well. That would mean that most people are satisfied with the product and the value.

The last really good limited edition for me personally was Thucydides. It was £400, hand-bound in full-grain leather with sculpted headcaps, oversized, with great paper and illustrations.

Let's compare 1984 with the Charles Darwin limited edition where both are £500. The Darwin book is half leather-bound by hand, with sculpted headcaps and wonderfully handmade marbled papers over the board.

1984 is just some fancy printed paper which seems very susceptible to rubbing, as the propaganda video (which wasn't bad) showed us.

The Folio Society pricing feels so random and not at all reasonable to me.

If the book with this binding had been £295, which is still not cheap, I would have gone for it, but £500 seems so wrong to me.

My guess is that Folio has too many employees to pay.

This is my second whine post and I think I repeat myself, so sorry guys, I'm just a little frustrated and disappointed. Let's hope this book gets a standard edition; the illustrations are fantastic.

150Cat_of_Ulthar
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 25, 1:27 am

>122 What_What:, >112 A.Godhelm:, >114 cronshaw:

I agree it's a bit puzzling in the video but in context with the statement on Folio's website that it's 'a hidden dossier' it makes more sense, as in the resistance compiling information and evidence against the regime.

The quotes from La Boca cited by >123 BooksFriendsNotFood: back that up.

151Cat_of_Ulthar
kesäkuu 25, 1:39 am

>136 antinous_in_london:

You omitted the previous sentences: 'This groundbreaking edition is currently being bound by hand by our experts in Yorkshire. The first 150 copies will be despatched on 25 June, with further books released weekly as they are received.'

It does appear they are being bound and sent out in order. Could just be sales propaganda, of course ;-)

152cronshaw
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 25, 4:36 am

>150 Cat_of_Ulthar: An 'underground resistance movement' hardly needs to compile evidence in a 'secret dossier' when that 'evidence' is vast scale propaganda which is impossible for anyone not to see!

>123 BooksFriendsNotFood: "They create the sense of a kind of underground resistance movement" - the pronoun 'they' being plural unambiguously refers to the stickers and not to the 'secret compartment': >112 A.Godhelm: is quite right in the absurdity of La Boca's non-reasoning here.

I've never been so disappointed with the concept, gimmickry, cheap materials and absurd pricing of a Folio limited edition.

153ian_curtin
kesäkuu 25, 4:56 am

I find myself lined up with the few (the underground?) admirers of La Boca's work. Overall I like the design but there is absolutlely no way I would consider paying £500 (nearly €600 - before postage) for a copy of 1984.

Incidentally, it's curious how saturated the market is with editions of 1984 - Penguin alone appears to have 10 different ones available at present. Along with Gatsby it has far and away the most variants. I can only assume the demand is there - which circles back to FS's confidence about this edition and their price, I guess.

154ian_curtin
kesäkuu 25, 5:07 am

>142 PartTimeBookAddict: Elif Shafak is a highly-regarded Turkish novelist. I have read stories and journalism by her, but not her novels. Her work has attracted pretty constant criticism from the Erdogan regime, including being put on trial in the early 2010s for "insulting Turkishness" (by addressing themes such as equality, feminism and persecution in a Turkish context). She says she no longer feels she can safely visit her former home in Istanbul.

Her new introduction can be read here: https://lithub.com/75-years-of-1984-why-george-orwells-classic-remains-more-rele...

155assemblyman
kesäkuu 25, 5:29 am

I was indifferent to the art when I saw the teasers but I really like the illustrations for this. I also like the general art design of the book but the use of a paper binding, gimmicky stickers and the seemingly high price for what you get puts me right off. With a high limitation of 750 copies at £500 the cynic in me feels FS are chancing their arm with the price to see who will bite and will then clear the rest in sales. Usually these LEs are better in hand so I will be interested to see how buyers find them when it arrives.

156antinous_in_london
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 25, 8:14 am

>151 Cat_of_Ulthar: The previous sentences didn’t really interest me as they have done this before with several editions recently so it’s nothing new.

My comment was more about them using ‘locking in a low number’ as an explicit sales technique. I couldn’t remember them previously specifically using getting a low number as a reason to buy as quickly as possible, though i know some buyers themselves do value a lower number. FS themselves seemed to be leaning into that idea that lower limitation numbers are more desirable than higher numbers. Similar to their recent trend of charging more for signed bookplate versions, i suppose the next experiment will be releasing LE’s in blocks as here, but charging higher prices for the first block to exploit those buyers who desire the lower numbers- an extra £100 if you want number 1-10 maybe? LOL

157A.Godhelm
kesäkuu 25, 8:23 am

>150 Cat_of_Ulthar: While I understand the interpretation offered in >123 BooksFriendsNotFood:, I think that just moves us back to the first impression that the stickers are juvenile (teenage rebellion stuff) and not something the regime would issue. Stickers make sense for the resistance, and this mirrors what you tend to see in the real world; rebellious stickers on lightposts versus government approved posters at the bus stops. I don't know exactly where in the process they went off the rails, but it doesn't make sense to me either way you slice it. Minus the stickers you've got an empty compartment which seems uninspired if not sending some signal about the pointlessness of resistance.
I'm probably overthinking it at this point and won't belabour the point further.

158Joshbooks1
kesäkuu 25, 8:39 am

>157 A.Godhelm: The whole thing is tacky and a poorly thought out gimmick. I like to buy nicely produced books - not a book with a hidden compartment to hide my cool 1984 stickers and patch. I always scratch my head at who comes up with such awful ideas and even more so the director who approves that idea! For such a popular book just copy the Suntup version with a few tweaks and do what Folio has been doing for the past years in up charging for a few hundred extra. For $850 after shipping and taxes it is an absolute rip-off, especially considering Suntup numbered was $675. How I miss Folio of yore.

159LeBacon
kesäkuu 25, 9:40 am

The stickers will never get stuck to anything. The patch will never be sewn onto anything. They'll stay in the pocket forever as a useless gimmick in an overpriced LE. It all seems so cheap and pointless.

160abysswalker
kesäkuu 25, 9:40 am

>158 Joshbooks1: the Suntup numbered edition is really superior in all regards, allowing for the subjectivity of taste in art. From the Suntup numbered colophon:
This edition of 1984 by George Orwell is limited to two hundred & seventy-six copies.

All copies are signed by Joe Hill, who wrote the introduction; and Jim Burns, who created the illustrations.

The text pages are set in Kelly Sans and printed letterpress by Bradley Hutchinson on his Heidelberg cylinder press. Interior design and typography by Jerry Kelly. Designed and produced under the direction of Paul Suntup.

Twenty-six copies are lettered A-Z and are printed on Zerkall paper. Two hundred & fifty copies are numbered and printed on Mohawk paper.

I'd add to that: handmade paste paper over the boards for the numbered.

(I don't own a copy of this and to be honest don't desire a finely printed copy of 1984, but this seems like such an apples to apples comparison I can't resist the comment.)

Say what you like about Suntup value, that's a proper deluxe book any way you look at it.

161podaniel
kesäkuu 25, 10:21 am

Here's a thought--you can get a matching boxed set of five volumes of Orwell's complete novels put out by Folio Society over on ebay for less than $200.00. I have the set and highly recommend them.

162HonorWulf
kesäkuu 25, 10:36 am

>161 podaniel: Complete... except for Animal Farm!

163antinous_in_london
kesäkuu 25, 10:41 am

>162 HonorWulf: *though the publisher & most others class Animal Farm as a novella rather than a novel so its omission is perhaps understandable.

164HonorWulf
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 25, 10:53 am

>163 antinous_in_london: Understandable in that Folio had been selling Animal Farm like hot cakes as a separate edition since 1984 and probably didn't want to cannibalize sales (I believe it was in its 21st printing at the time of the Orwell box set in 2001). But I imagine most people buying an Orwell box set would want both 1984 and Animal Farm in it, novel vs. novella debate aside.

165SF-72
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 25, 12:17 pm

I just received Areté's Frozen Hell, which cost 585 Pounds. There's really no comparison to what FS are offering for just 85 Pounds less. Letter press printing of the highest quality, leather bound and foil blocked, hand bound, excellent paper, cloth-bound slipcase, signed by the artist, who provided, and I quote:

16 colour plates, of which two are four-page foldouts, four are double-page spreads and one is a three-page foldout.

Thirteen black-and-white, relief-printed illustrations.

The numbered edition I received today consists of 320 numbered copies. It's fantastic quality, and as much as I like the 1984 illustrations, comparing these two editions, FS look really bad compared to Areté. Their edition of 1984 really feels like a rip off at a price where you can get a real fine press work of art elsewhere. As someone else here said, it's a standard edition (with a few extras that aren't particularly fitting or appealing) at limited edition prices.

166cronshaw
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 25, 12:19 pm

>160 abysswalker: >165 SF-72: Indeed. These examples make Folio begin to look like serious rip-off merchants, trying desperately to sucker in as many buyers as they can with gaudy gimmickry and FOMO marketing. FS appear to have completely given up the idea of maintaining a brand reputation based on genuine care and quality. Following on from their recent flash sale debacle, I now feel fully cured from FAD. For the first time ever, I've not the slightest impulse to attend their pop-up sale this Saturday.

167PartTimeBookAddict
kesäkuu 25, 4:15 pm

>154 ian_curtin: Thanks for the link. It's a fine introduction, but a little facile.

I'll give "The Island of Missing Trees" a try and go from there.

168boldface
kesäkuu 25, 6:25 pm

>161 podaniel: ". . . a matching boxed set of five volumes of Orwell's complete novels."
>162 HonorWulf: "Complete... except for Animal Farm!"

All Sets are equal but some sets are more equal than others.

169bacchus.
kesäkuu 26, 2:40 am

>165 SF-72: 1984 LE is breaking new ground on how much profit one can make from a book. And every such temporal success takes away from the brand. They’ve been capitalizing on the brand for a time now. Even with towels, stickers, posters and the like, they can’t obscure the dissonance between price and what’s really offered forever.

170folio_books
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 26, 6:19 am

>168 boldface: All Sets are equal but some sets are more equal than others.

Genius :)

171mr.philistine
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 26, 9:32 am

>168 boldface: All Sets are equal but some sets are more equal than others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kkv7SHxofY&t=17m37s
Everybody is equal in dirt. :)

I wonder if the same applies to the politburo comrades running the Union of Folio Society Republic (UFSR).

172astropi
kesäkuu 26, 5:42 pm

>131 HonorWulf: Yup, and if you ask the FS they will give you some vague politician-like answer as to why they are charging intentional customers about 20% more! To be fair, I've seen them charge as much as 40% more.

Given the price, I will definitely pass on 1984. That said, I was just informed by the FS that they are done to 17 copies of the beautiful, letterpress, Poems of Edward Thomas. If I did not already own a copy I would certainly get this, it's absolutely worth it --

https://www.foliosociety.com/usa/edward-thomas-selected-poems.html

173Keith_Ldn
kesäkuu 27, 3:40 am

>172 astropi: Agreed, it's a beautiful book that's a pleasure to own and read. I'm surprised it didn't sell out ages ago

174SF-72
kesäkuu 27, 12:08 pm

>173 Keith_Ldn:

In my case, they failed to sell the series to me since they charged expensive limited edition express shipping per title. It would have cost as much as one of the books when they were on special offer / about 150 Pounds to Germany. By the time they changed that according to members here, I'd reached a point where I decided I didn't need them after all.

175billburden
kesäkuu 28, 1:31 am

>154 ian_curtin: Thanks for the link to the intro.

176User2024
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 29, 7:22 am

Mine arrived. It’s all right. Edit: Wouldn’t buy again.

177BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 29, 12:39 am

Some Too many thoughts (as per usual) now that I've finished reading the LE.

1. Not related to the book, but I love that Folio switched from DHL to FedEx. DHL express shipping would take a minimum of 1 week but this got here in 2 days (I received it yesterday).

2. I was finally able to confirm that these numbered copies are absolutely not shipped out in order. 🙌 Someone in the UK mentioned that they ordered their copy a little past 4pm BST and they got a number under 100, whereas I in the US ordered a little before 2pm BST and I got a number over 100. I'm totally cool with this because as per usual, whoever wrote the number did it really prettily and my book came in perfect condition, but it's weird that Folio encourages ordering early to lock in a low number, when numbers aren't shipped out in ordered sequence anyways.

(EDIT: PLEASE SKIP THE BELOW PARAGRAPH IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK YET AS THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS.)
3. Now that I've read the book and seen all the details to the "hidden compartment", the design makes total sense to me & also seems really cool! I never really cared about the reasoning behind it previously or even whether it made rational sense because I'm good with anything as long as it's not ugly, but I'm impressed. My interpretation is the following. For one, La Boca has really focused their illustrations on bringing the mindset and reality of the Party to life, so it makes sense to me that this also applies to the stickers, the patch, the print, and the folder. When you take the book out of the box, you see the front of the folder with the BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU design. Then, when you take this folder out and turn it around, you obviously see the War is Peace print and the Party-appropriate stickers and spies patch. As people have pointed out, this has nothing to do with rebellion, right? But what I didn't mention is that when you take out the folder and before you turn it around to see the print, stickers, and patch, there is quote at the bottom of the box that is revealed: "If you want to keep a secret, you must also hide it from yourself." I LOVE this because just like in the book, a rebellion with anti-propaganda stickers (either obvious or subtle) would obviously not work, because 1) the Party isn't dumb, and 2) because even when you think you're safe and Big Brother isn't watching you (i.e. when you're behind or at the backside of the BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU folder), Big Brother's probably still watching you, or at least you can never be completely sure that he's not watching you. There is nowhere to hide your thoughts, let alone even a hint of outward non-conformity. Even if you follow all the non-rules and are the perfect little citizen, you're still not 100% safe. Not only is it not enough to appear to pretend to buy into the propaganda with the stickers and patches in public, but it's not enough even when you're out of sight and hearing from the eyes and ears of Big Brother. You've got to keep the mask on regardless of whether or not you think you're being watched. But also, in a world where even one stray, accidental thought puts you in danger, you actually CAN'T rebel without hiding the desire to rebel even from yourself, I.E. there is no rebellion. It isn't possible. There is only Big Brother. I think this is brilliant and aligns PERFECTLY with the book. It may be bleak, but so is the book.

4. This is the ONLY 1984 edition that I have found beautiful to date (also I probably would have never read this book if FS hadn't released this...I would've just been waiting for a beautiful edition I liked and it probably never would've happened and thus, I would never have read the book). The metallic silk paper / buckram is perfect for it, the illustrations are ideal, and everything is very cohesive and there was obviously so much love and thought put into everything. It is a textbook Folio production that provides a heightened reading experience. That being said, $750 is absolutely crazy. It doesn't stop me because thankfully I am able to afford it even at this "unreasonable" price, and because there are no competitors — nobody makes books like this. For someone who likes colorful, pretty books and is thus unimpressed by even the most ridiculously expensive, existing editions as well much cheaper copies of this book, it doesn't get better than this for me. Even so, I feel that this should be a MAXIMUM of $500, and should more reasonably be $300-$350. In fact, if it wasn't Folio, I daresay it'd be $150 or less if this was from a regular publisher and it was just the book by itself without the illustrations or sprayed edges, but of course, regular publishers rarely put out books this pretty and that's why we have these prices. But of course - and as I've mentioned before - "regular" SubPress books are $200 which is also ridiculous if I think about it (which is why I don't think about it), so discussing correct pricing is pointless because as people have mentioned on here before, pricing is just a product of demand. Yay capitalism because the alternate is apparently Big Brother (this is a joke).

That was a tangent because I distracted myself, but what I was trying to say is that...wait, I forgot again...it'll come to me...

What I was trying to say is that what concerns me about this ridiculously high pricing - other than the ridiculously high pricing itself - is that both with this 1984 LE and with the The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet LE - which are the closet to "it's an LE but it could easily be an extra fancy SE" in my eyes - when I'm in the middle of the book and it hasn't YET blown me away, there is a moment of Yikes, did I just throw away my money? What if this book sucks and I've wasted my money?. And this is probably because despite the price being SO HIGH, the book is just an extra-fancy SE, i.e. it's pretty, but that by itself does not justify the expenditure. It's not quite outside the realm of a "regular", but good-looking, book. Like a nicer version of what you might find in a book box, or a one-off special from a mainstream publisher. These things are great, but not typically worth FS LE prices based on looks alone. So it becomes integral that the story itself is SO GOOD that it does not feel like a waste of money. Luckily I've lucked out so far, but this risk is definitely food for thought for me and so far I just try not to think about it.

In a similar vein, with the 1984 LE, it's not a waste of money for me because I ended up loving it and it provided me with the best reading experience of 1984, but spending $750 on this with no intention of reading it in the scenario that I'd hypothetically read it before would've felt like such a waste of money. When I first got this in the mail, my thought was that it was pretty, as expected, but again, it could've easily been $150 or less in an alternate reality where it was published by a regular book publisher without the illustrations, spredges, and bells and whistles like the box & extraneous paraphernalia. Similarly, the stickers and patch were unimpressive at first, but after I started reading the book and then was able to hold the Victory Gin sticker and surprising large SPIES patch, it was cool to have actual items from the book in my hands. So if FS ever publishes a gorgeous LE where it's a book that I've already read and it isn't written by Agatha Christie or Jane Austen or something, that's another thing I'll have to think about instead of auto-buying due to gorgeousness and a desire to read the book. But we'll get there when we get there.

Have a good night, y'all. ✌️

178wcarter
kesäkuu 29, 12:16 am

>177 BooksFriendsNotFood:
Now that is a review!

179BooksFriendsNotFood
kesäkuu 29, 12:23 am

180BooksFriendsNotFood
kesäkuu 29, 1:00 am

(Again, please do not read this paragraph if you haven't read the book yet as there are major spoilers.)

One more thought: there is an illustration in the book which is direct Big Brother propaganda as described in the text, and so La Boca put a teeny INGSOC logo within the illustration itself. The presentation box that the LE comes in also has a small INGSOC logo below the FS logo, which lends itself to the idea that this whole LE, INCLUDING the book 1984, is just propaganda by the Party, so the idea in the book that you cannot rebel against the Party is just...propaganda by the Party. I love the creativity that La Boca put into the design.

181Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 29, 1:44 am

I will wait until they dumb the prices on some of their weird sales.
The Beowulf LE, for example, will price drop even more in the future. That's my guessing at least.
In matters of marketing Folio Society is a devil. They made panic on Instagram and Facebook that the non-fiction Dinosaur book is down to 90. People bought in panic and before it sold out they had new stock available of that title... really disgusting.

Back to the topic. Doesn't seem like it sold as good as other titles at this point.
If it won't receive the 50% sold badge soon, it's a likely qualifier for a price drop.

/ thank you for the review 😊

182SF-72
kesäkuu 29, 4:40 am

>177 BooksFriendsNotFood:

Thank you for the interesting review.

183red_guy
kesäkuu 29, 6:05 am

If the book had been bound in Italy or Germany by one of the larger companies, wouldn't it be cheaper than using the craftspeople at the comparatively tiny Smith Settle?
Also, would a consequent SE be made somewhere else other than the UK because of the size of the edition, and might this therefore preclude the prospect of a SE for this?
Have recent SEs of LEs been made in different countries?
Does a lower cover price preclude using smaller printers and binders, and can you have the one without the other?

>177 BooksFriendsNotFood: I thoroughly enjoy your enthusiastic reviews - never be put off doing them by any devotee who has seriously overrun their two minutes of Daily Folio Hate ! ;)

184mr.philistine
kesäkuu 29, 7:09 am

>177 BooksFriendsNotFood: PLEASE SKIP... AS THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS.
>180 BooksFriendsNotFood: Again... there are major spoilers.

You can hide spoilers within these tags (in bold):
<spoiler>MAJOR SPOILERS</spoiler>

...to get this effect ♫ 🎶 ♫ 🎶 My Type (SAINT MOTEL) 🎶 ♫ 🎶 ♫

185santiamen
kesäkuu 29, 9:41 am

>183 red_guy: Do you think they'll release a standard edition of this edition in the future? Given they already have one on the website?

186santiamen
kesäkuu 29, 9:47 am

>181 Ragnaroekk:
If 270 copies have sold within 5 days, is that good or not good enough for LE standards?

I usually don't follow the statistics on LEs but I really hoped this novel was going to be cheaper since I dislike the current SE edition enough not to buy it. So it'd either have to be this one reissued as an SE or the LE making it to the winter sale.

187Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 29, 10:56 am

>186 santiamen:
Its not that bad tbh, but nothing record breaking.

The Suntup Artist Edition is very nice, but maybe not in the price range you would like to pay.
It depends on the the country you are living in and where you're buying.
If you buy local you don't pay customs and shipping is very low. You can save a lot of money.
If I buy a book from eBay (International), it's always more expensive to me, than when I would by International from a private person.
Ebay always gives you the right VAT amount to pay. If the package company is doing the custom I always pay around 18€ , doesn't matter how expensive the book is. Weird isn't it ? It's a true story though.

188BooksFriendsNotFood
kesäkuu 29, 12:01 pm

>181 Ragnaroekk: My pleasure!

>182 SF-72: I'm glad you found it interesting!

>183 red_guy: That's extremely kind of you — thank you very much!! Also I'm so pleased I get the 1984 references now haha!

>184 mr.philistine: Thank you for letting me know that spoiler tags work here! I'll keep this tool in mind going forward.

189santiamen
kesäkuu 29, 12:22 pm

>187 Ragnaroekk: I'm in the UK so shipping's not an issue at least for FS books.

I'm not really a fan of the illustrations depicting the characters - it's one of the reasons I don't like the current Nineteen Eighty-Four SE. So that Suntup edition wouldn't work for me either. I feel like La Boca understood the point of the novel better but the price is a hard pill to swallow.

190red_guy
kesäkuu 29, 12:39 pm

>185 santiamen: Hard to say - I think if they do, it will not be a near identical production without the limitation page, like a lot of recent LEs/SEs. I'm not even sure Smith Settle (and I expect that using them is what has made the LE expensive) could even handle a bigger handmade print run at reasonable cost, so it would be bound and printed in the EU somewhere.

The Gormenghast SE was a different treatment and an excellent price, ditto the Philip K Dick stories. But given that a version of 1984 has been constantly available for so long, I can't quite see how a new SE would pay its way, can you?

I'd say if you like it, get it. It's not a bargain, but it's a very attractive production.

191abysswalker
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 29, 12:59 pm

>177 BooksFriendsNotFood: "it's weird that Folio encourages ordering early to lock in a low number, when numbers aren't shipped out in ordered sequence anyways"

I think this "lock in a low number" means number less than 150, not "in ordered sequence" (since only the first 150 were available immediately).

I still think it's kind of silly, but I don't think Folio is being dishonest.

192BooksFriendsNotFood
kesäkuu 29, 1:32 pm

>191 abysswalker: That's a fair point. My take is that Folio shipping out numbers in non-order sequence previously was fine because they never really made overt references to the numbering and the customer just gets what they get. But by now talking about locking in a low number, they seem to be implying that what number you get should have an importance to you, so if they're saying this, I just find it inconsistent that customers should find it important but the earliest people to order may still end up with a random number within the first 150.

As you mentioned though, this is all pretty unimportant and silly.

193astropi
kesäkuu 29, 3:26 pm

>177 BooksFriendsNotFood: 1984 LE, it's not a waste of money for me because I ended up loving it and it provided me with the best reading experience of 1984

Nice! I'm a bit like that too -- life is short, might as well have the best reading experience :)
That said, I have no doubt that the best reading experience bar none for 1984 is the SJPP edition, which is just not affordable for mere mortals. A good second alternative... well, I really wanted to love the FS edition. I think the illustrations are great, but I just do not see this edition as being worth $835 which is what it would cost me after shipping and taxes. If it was printed letterpress I would have already ordered. Now, I know some people are thinking "if it was letterpress it would have been $2000!" -- I disagree -- Suntup continuously publishes letterpress editions far below $1000. Case in point, their letterpress edition of Of Mice and Men is $595 (sold out). Lyra's Press published The Wizard of Oz at £495, basically the same price as the FS 1984 and it's letterpress.

Also, the EP DLE edition has lovely illustrations, although to be fair I know they're not everyone's cup of tea (I prefer the FS illustrations) --



But, at the end of the day the EP illustrations are apropos and lovely, and more importantly, the price is reasonable at $375. PLUS, with EP you can pay in installments. That is something the FS used to do, I have no idea why they did away with it, but it was a bad decision. Anyway, I know I'm ranting a bit here. Ultimately, I guess I just wish the FS published more editions like their Edward Thomas and Wilfred Owen which I feel are not only priced appropriately, but are truly gorgeous editions which you will not find elsewhere.

194BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: kesäkuu 29, 6:28 pm

>193 astropi: "That said, I have no doubt that the best reading experience bar none for 1984 is the SJPP edition, which is just not affordable for mere mortals."

I'd actually disagree, though naturally this is subjective! It's probably unsurprising that I find the look of the SJPP edition boring (red, with a white spine — again, material doesn't really matter to me). Additionally, based on some of the pages seen at https://www.stjamesparkpress.com/1984, the writing looks cramped and there's so much going on. There's a small block of black text on the page, and then much more tiny gray text all around it. On the other hand, Folio really does prioritize the reading experience with good size font and spacing on the page, diary entries and writing in red text & a different font, and the entries from Goldstein's book in a separate, textbook-like black font.

And I used to think that the illustrations/inserts in the SJPP edition were cool, but La Boca's illustrations are simpler, more straightforward, and to the point (plus just very pleasant to gaze at), whereas SJPP has a lot going on here as well. Clearly the SJPP edition is very popular with people though so I'm glad it makes them happy!

This is unrelated but I did get the Ulysses EP DLE recently and I'm making my way through it and really enjoying it! It's a rare case where I didn't think Folio had the most attractive/interesting edition(s) XD*

*EP also 100% wins over Folio on the Jane Austen front with the below three:
https://www.eastonpress.com/all-categories/literature/pride-and-prejudice-3082.h...
https://www.eastonpress.com/deluxe-editions/pride-and-prejudice-3864.html
https://www.eastonpress.com/all-categories/literature/jane-austen---the-novels-3...

195A.Godhelm
kesäkuu 29, 6:38 pm

>177 BooksFriendsNotFood: It was fun reading this and hearing someone really enjoy it, even with your caveats.

196BooksFriendsNotFood
kesäkuu 29, 7:04 pm

>195 A.Godhelm: I'm really happy to hear that — thank you!

197What_What
kesäkuu 29, 9:26 pm

>177 BooksFriendsNotFood: Great review. You also read that pretty quickly!

198BooksFriendsNotFood
kesäkuu 29, 10:28 pm

>197 What_What: Thank you! It got here on Thursday and I had Friday off from work so the timing worked out really well. ◡̈

199EPsonNY
kesäkuu 29, 10:41 pm

Useat käyttäjät ovat merkinneet tämän viestin asiattomaksi eikä sitä enää näytetä. (näytä)
>197 What_What: Yes, an impressive fast reader with malfunctioning short term memory with close to zero book references mentioning plot lines, events, characters, own impressions of the aforementioned. Watch out for the "major spoilers" though!

200What_What
heinäkuu 2, 9:38 am

>199 EPsonNY: I know my comments ruffle feathers sometimes, but that was really nasty and uncalled for.

201EPsonNY
heinäkuu 2, 2:59 pm

>200 What_What: My comment was a simple sarcastic follow-up play on yours, not intended to be nasty in any way and I apologize if you received as such.

However; my intention was to gently point out that speed reading a book in less than a day and providing virtually no indication of having done so, but rather selling/explaining La Boca's botched/convoluted concept (that may not be as self-explanatory/evident as the artist/editor believed), may be the reviewer's main intent.

202What_What
heinäkuu 2, 3:24 pm

>201 EPsonNY: Most people are probably familiar enough with 1984, or seem to be. The explanation of the materials filled probably the only gap most of them have. And yeah, sometimes sarcasm strikes the wrong chord unfortunately.

203EPsonNY
heinäkuu 2, 3:39 pm

>202 What_What: Yes, but materials relate to book's contents and context matters. Irrelevant illustrations or gimmicks like stickers etc. have to be self-explanatory AND related to main concepts, plot lines, characters without need for extra explanations. Rob Roy LE's illustrations came with text tattooed on the character to help viewer's understand the art and artist's message. 1984 LE's artwork and accompanying extras do not seem a product of an artist's dream project, but rather a rushed and vague mish-mash of childish tchotchkes requiring rushed explanation from the creator that upon closer inspection does not come across as very cohesive...

Sarcasm is worth risk-taking, but sadly it is a dying and often-misunderstood species...

204astropi
heinäkuu 2, 5:49 pm

>203 EPsonNY: I really enjoyed the illustrations for this edition, and I do agree the stickers/patches come off as kitschy, although I can understand what they were going for. At the end of the day, I can't justify spending over $800 for such an edition. Based on what I've read, I feel that many people were hoping for the $400-500 range.

Sarcasm is worth risk-taking, but sadly it is a dying and often-misunderstood species...

That it is! I suppose like a footnote it's sometimes worth adding "sarcasm intended" :)

205EPsonNY
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 2, 6:36 pm

>204 astropi: Neither can I. I was excited to hear that Folio was doing 1984; however, as much as I am disappointed both in the price (and art), I believe the likes of Conversation Tree Press could pull off a cheaper and possibly far better edition of 1984. They have done it with The Flowers for Algernon.

I also sincerely hope one day they CTP will tackle The Canticle as well since Folio's edition is likely to cost in the vicinity of 1984, which is simply too much and something Folio should be ashamed of even it is locally bound. Ironically, using local craftsmen and women may not add that much to the final cost over foreign binding job; however, making it a focal point of Folio's marketing campaign is clearly used to win folks over - support local jobs (strategy a-la-Trump's Made in the USA) - and distract from an exorbitant cost of otherwise subpar production.

206astropi
heinäkuu 2, 11:20 pm

>205 EPsonNY: I think it's great that they are out there supporting local craftsmen! Of course, that can not be the primary reason to purchase a book, but it surely helps. That said, I agree with you, there's no way that that is the reason the book is so expensive. As you noted CTP publishes everything letterpress, and their "standard edition" -- which is still an absolutely beautiful limited edition letterpress hand-bound edition -- here's an example --



Is HALF the cost of the FS 1984! Yeah, I know there are numerous factors involved in book production. But other publishers such as Lyra produce the most exquisite fine editions for at or below the cost of this offset printed 1984. Sigh.

207Levin40
heinäkuu 3, 5:02 am

>206 astropi: Actually I paid $275 via Kickstarter (who take fees), so make that a third of the price. It it is also bound (and printed) by local craftsmen, has about 6x the number of illustrations and a far lower limitation. No stickers though.

208Cat_of_Ulthar
heinäkuu 3, 1:40 pm

>202 What_What: 'Most people are probably familiar enough with 1984, or seem to be.'

Exactly that. It's been such a ubiquitous cultural reference for my entire life that I almost feel as if I have read it even though I've actually only read excerpts quoted elsewhere. But I know the characters, I know the story, I know the slogans, I know the concept of it.*

I have spent the past couple of nights actually reading it for the first time and I have to say it's not a disappointment, it's a gripping read and, if I had had a day off work, I might also have finished it in one sitting.

The LE is beautiful, by the way :-)

*I'm in my fifties so I appreciate that might not be the case for anybody who's not yet hit old-gitdom ;-)

209abysswalker
heinäkuu 12, 3:16 pm

Comment and photos from a user on Facebook:
... Despite the early criticism this book received - due to price and chosen material of the binding - I was quick to press buy as it’s a genuine top 5 book for me.

My expectations were high from the start no doubt, but I was deeply disappointed by the chosen "metallic paper" for the binding. With both copies I have received, there is very visible creasing in the hinge of book which I can only put down to the quality (or lack thereof) of the material. It’s almost as though the paper wasn't pulled tight when the book was bound. There are also a few marks scratches and scuffs here and there. ...












My addendum: another example of how paper over the hinges is a bad idea from a materials perspective. Also, the design of this book avoids part of the benefit of using something like a marbled paper, the irregularity of which helps camouflage minor dings. In contrast, the geometric pattern of this paper seems to highlight any imperfection. Note also the photos above are from the replacement copy the customer received (the original copy also having flaws).

210wcarter
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 12, 4:06 pm

To me these seem like very minor imperfections and would not make me complain. Maybe I am not choosy enough.

211Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 12, 4:09 pm

>209 abysswalker:
That book is bound by a human, by hand. All those "imperfections" on the photos are normal things that can and will happen. If I watch carefully enough I will found faults on every book I own.
Book binding is a error written art.

It's just printed paper the book is bound in... very prone to damage.
I see it like >210 wcarter:

212abysswalker
heinäkuu 12, 4:21 pm

>211 Ragnaroekk: "very prone to damage"

Sounds like a material not suited to bindings, in my opinion.

I prefer materials that develop patina with use or resist wear completely. Obviously, within reasonable use parameters (I wouldn't expect any materials to survive well being thrown in a puddle). But if it accumulates unsightly scratches between factory and customer, that's an issue, for me.

But I admit this is a matter of taste, and it seems not uncommon to come across collectors that take great pride in procuring "fine" condition copies of books with fragile (in my opinion, poorly designed) bindings.

213evilsooty999
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 12, 7:11 pm

For the amount of money they are charging for a very expensive paper-bound book, it should be flawless.

i've sent back standard editions for less.

P.S. I'm never buying another paper-bound edition again. The final straw was Day of the Jackal; looks like a hardback you would pick up in Sainsburys.

214Ragnaroekk
heinäkuu 12, 7:29 pm

>212 abysswalker:
There are really good papers on the market, but they will never have the same wear resistance, then Buckram, Leather, or Cloth bindings.
I don't wanna repeat myself over and over again, because I think I made my opinion about Folios actual LE's and marketing quite clear, but I was giggling like a little girl, when I saw youre post with the pictures and write something again...

Normally people pay premium for a better binding. Take Curious King here for example. You can have The Fifth Season bound in half marbled cloth with paper boards or a full leather binding.
All the other stuff is the same. The price difference between both editions is 360£.

I know you can't compare this with the Folio Editions, because you have other Illustrations and paper, but let's do this nevertheless.
You get 1984 bound in cloth for 49,99£ and the Deluxe edition bound in printed paper for 500£...

If people have the money and think the edition is worth it, iam the last to complain, but keep in mind that if such a edition is selling well, we will see more of those in the future.

215Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 12, 7:35 pm

>213 evilsooty999:
You will NEVER have a flawless handbound book ever. That's not possible. You not seeing the flaw doesn't mean there isn't one. Watch long enough and you will always find imperfections, always!
We talk about something that is completely made by a human controlled hand ✋️

216User2024
heinäkuu 12, 7:31 pm

The older textured paper bound version of A Clockwork Orange is much hardier. I love that binding, it’s almost leathery.

217astropi
heinäkuu 12, 9:04 pm

>211 Ragnaroekk: That book is bound by a human, by hand. All those "imperfections" on the photos are normal things that can and will happen.

Have to disagree there. I mean, with a magnifier sure, you'll find imperfections in anything. However, Conversation Tree Press, Lyra's Press, etc. are hand bound as well and rarely if ever have I heard anyone complain about flaws in the binding. I think as others have pointed it out, it comes to knowing exactly what you're doing to avoid such issues.

218Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 12, 11:50 pm

>217 astropi:
We don't talk about major faults here, just little imperfections that you will see if you meticulously search your book. Ask 5 people, some will find them, some will find nothing and some find others.
I could show you at least one on every Ludlow bound book. It always depends on your inner monk and how perfectionistic you are (scratches like in the pictures above aren't included, though). Often, it is some glue sticking where it's not belonging, Head and tailbands missing glue on some parts, the letterpress printing has some flaws as well sometimes etc... (One of the best letterpress printing I received so far comes from Bradley Hutchinson)
I bet I could find some imperfections on your copies as well, but again we don't talk about big stuff. There isn't a flawless book though.

219BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 13, 12:35 am

I really love the metallic paper and think it’s a great change from always having cloth or leather bindings, which I can get bored with. I do like the variety between paper, cloth, leather, and vellum because you never know what's coming next and that's exciting / leaves a lot of room for creativity (I also enjoy the variation even among the types of cloth, paper, or leather used). And as people have mentioned, handmade items are prone to imperfections or each copy potentially not looking exactly the same as the other, which is why - to go on a slight tangent - I have no problem with machine made books. I love them.

This is also an unpopular opinion, but I would absolutely take paper with a printed design (assuming I like the design) over any sort of marbling, all day every day.

And regarding imperfections in a book, I think these are inevitable in even store bought, regular-priced books, and of course, each reader has a different standard for what makes them happy. And I do think there can be a difference between a book being received "imperfect" and a book becoming imperfect after you read it. I've noticed with FS though that a lot of times the design is so superior that the little things don't really bug me / take away from my enjoyment of the book as a physical object, whereas I'm extremely picky with my "cheap" books. If you had told me 1-2 years ago that I'd just live with my FS copy of Frederica missing a little pie slice of purple foil/printing from the oval surrounding the letter F on the spine, or that I'd not request a replacement on my 50% off Casino Royale LE which has a little bit of non-perfect foil stuff going on on the cover, I never would've believed it, but I'm genuinely not really bothered — I still love my copies. Meanwhile, a dent on a $16 book can annoy me enough to prompt a return or not pick up the book.

From the pictures above, I wouldn't be surprised if the creases around the spine occurred through the opening and closing of the book (after all, that's expected of paper bindings, and it doesn't detract from the look imo plus I don't think paper binding is an actual problem unless you're a really rough reader who opens their books more than 180 degrees, e.g. anything greater than laying it flat on a table, or if you're someone who plans to re-read the book 100 times, which may possibly structurally compromise the book, although I wouldn't know because I don't think I've ever read any single edition of a book more than ~11 times. So far.) I don't think I'd personally find the small scratches a big deal because even Madame Bovary had some weird/unique "knots", lines, or patterns in the silk binding. If this is the person's first ever LE though, then I get it. Some LEs like We Have Always Lived in the Castle, Roadside Picnic, and The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet are probably less prone to individual differences, whereas books like 1984, the Shakespeare set, and The Waste Land tend to differ a bit more from set to set (an example from the Shakespeare set was the "waviness" of the head and tail bands, whereas some examples from The Waste Land were the texture and look of the vellum from copy to copy, inconsistent letterpress printing in some copies, non-perfectly centered or loss of gold stamping on the spine, etc.). Even Hitchhiker's had foiling inconsistencies, but I'm glad this doesn't stop FS from playing with various materials because I love all these LEs very much and the only one I've ever needed replacements for was The Waste Land.

In general, if someone really likes the LE and just wants to give themself the chance to have the most perfect copy they can get their hands on (for example, maybe their original copy didn't have the crease or scratches but had different problems, so they really think one more try could provide them with a better copy), I don't see a problem with requesting an additional replacement from Folio with the mindset of keeping the one that appeals to them the most out of the 2-3 total copies they received and then returning the others. But if it's more along the lines of them not seeing themself liking any copy of the book, maybe because it may never be as "perfect" as they wish for at that price point or because they just like it a lot less now that it's in their hands, then a return due to imperfections also totally makes sense.

220Ragnaroekk
heinäkuu 13, 12:40 am

>219 BooksFriendsNotFood:
I know people that complained about the grain of the leather, I think that's the reason why there is this neat little card included by folio society, when a book is bound in leather.
In the end everyone has to be happy with his/her copy.

221BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 13, 1:45 am

>220 Ragnaroekk: Yeah, I remember you or somebody else mentioned this before! They have the little card in their leather and vellum books which was honestly kind of useful to me the first time when I was a newbie. 😂

I agree with you that it's not so much a matter of a "perfect" copy but a copy that makes you happy / you are happy with.

222Cat_of_Ulthar
heinäkuu 13, 2:55 am

>210 wcarter: 'To me these seem like very minor imperfections and would not make me complain.'

You and me both. My copy has similar small creases to the hinges but I never thought of returning it. I guess I'm less of a perfectionist than some.

223Cat_of_Ulthar
heinäkuu 13, 3:16 am

>219 BooksFriendsNotFood: 'This is also an unpopular opinion, but I would absolutely take paper with a printed design (assuming I like the design) over any sort of marbling, all day every day.'

I like marbling but I think it's appropriate for some books and not others. I don't think it would suit 1984, for example, while I love the marbled boards on the Darwin LE.

I don't think leather would really suit 1984, either, for the very subjective reason that leather suggests something soft and comforting, like a comfy armchair, and 1984 is not a soft, comforting book. I think the hard, metallic sheen of the paper works really well.

I also enjoy Folio trying different things and experimenting with styles and materials.

224folio_books
heinäkuu 13, 5:26 am

>210 wcarter:
>222 Cat_of_Ulthar: You and me both.

Allow me to add my name to the list. I don't think a casual observer would notice anything as insignificant as this.

225DMulvee
heinäkuu 13, 7:06 am

>224 folio_books: I agree, I am surprised at what some customers of the FS expect

226Ragnaroekk
heinäkuu 13, 7:28 am

>225 DMulvee:
In my case just a reasonable priced book 😊
I hadn't mind the paper binding if the price would have been right and they finally stop those gimmicky stuff... People are different though, which is OK.

227DMulvee
heinäkuu 13, 8:01 am

>226 Ragnaroekk: I agree. I had been interested in the 1984 but the stickers and overall price didn’t work for me. However if I purchase every LE (and all books sell out) then the FS are underpricing their books. If I buy some and leave others, then I think as a business model they are doing things correctly.
When I see near perfect books being complained about online (and then being sold for 80% of its price to others - not that I am saying this has happened in this case), then prices have to rise to offset the extra costs.

228Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 13, 8:27 am

>227 DMulvee:
Hmm, but wouldn't that mean that Suntup and Co is underpricing their books ? Wheather a book is selling out or not is dependent from many factors in my opinion.
The problem seems to be an folio society problem alone. Very picky customers with pseudo knowledge of the book binding art and extremely high expectations. (Not all customers of course 😊)
Alot customers that are buying Folio LE don't know what is:
● full-grain-leather
● marbling
● letterpress
● Vellum
● sculpted headcaps
● sprayed/painted/gilded edges..
Etc...

That's atleast my experience so far, if you read through social media and co.
That could be one of the reasons the descriptions are often so vague and the explanation for the materials used.

You can sell someone with no or low knowledge about a specific thematic nearly everything, because he/she doesn't know better and has to trust in the firm to produce with the highest standards.
But most of the people in this group for example are experienced foxes and can see through the veil...
I guess you understand what I want to express.

229DMulvee
heinäkuu 13, 10:28 am

>228 Ragnaroekk: I think it is difficult to state if Suntup is underpriced because they use rights - some buyers purchase works to retain the option of being able to purchase a future release. So if a book sells out you can’t be certain if it is because purchasers value the current work more than the selling price, or if they value keeping rights and the current book at a greater value than the cost of the current book.
For publishers not using rights I would argue yes, if all books are selling out very quickly then from a business viewpoint prices can be raised, or supply could increase.

230Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 13, 10:55 am

>229 DMulvee:
In the end it doesn't matter or iam missing something here ?

Let's take Paul Suntup as example again.
There are 26 lettered, 250 numbered, and 750 classic editions. All sell out in one hour. Half an hour after the sellout 4 lettered, 50 numbered and 250 classic edition are available on the secondary market.
In which way will this change something for Paul Suntup ? He earned his money.
Should he increase the prices now and/or increase the limitations ?

Sometimes a book is very popular and the demand is there, through popularity, design or price. Let's say Folio had sold out 1984 in 24h. Increasing the limitation next time would make bo sense, because the low limitation is something people like. Otherwise, it would be just an expensive standard edition without a limit.
Increasing the price for the next publication would make no sense too, it always depends on the demand that often can't be forseen.

In my opinion there isn't something more disgusting then price drop Limited editions on those mega sales. 50% for turn of the screw for example. Just disgusting, even more if you were one of the people that bought for the full price.

Imagine Tony would make a 50% sale on his current stock. I would be more than pissed tbh. 😤

231DMulvee
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 13, 11:07 am

>230 Ragnaroekk: I think there is a key difference. If a publishers offers rights then the market may give a value to those rights. If books are priced too high or supply is too high, then books fail to sell out and so the values of rights drop to zero as prospective buyers can purchase the books if they have it or not.
Let’s pretend you are publishing books and offer rights and buyers are willing to pay a premium of $200 on every release to maintain rights. You are selling out all your copies. You therefore decide to raise prices by $100, however you no longer sell out your books. Buyers now value rights at $0 as they can buy copies of your books. Even though you have only raised prices by $100 buyers may consider this a rise of $300 as rights are now worthless, and so you may struggle to sell works in the future.

Whilst a hypothetical example, Suntup rights carried a large premium a couple of years ago, and now are much easier to obtain. You can see that Curious King has a significant premium ($1000) for publishers rights currently. Trying to work out how to maximise business revenue in the medium and long term for businesses that use that model is much more difficult that the likes of FS whose books are considered on a book by book basis.

I think Suntup has a problem currently almost every numbered and most lettered books are available at a discount on the Facebook group as soon as they are announced (sometimes with large discounts). The Last Unicorn has been an outlier that has commanded a premium, but even if a book is tempting so many rights holders are willing to sell at a discount that I wouldn’t purchase directly from Suntup as I feel it is likely I could get it cheaper. I don’t think this is aiding Suntup in the long term, because prospective buyers believe that can purchase books at a discount.
With other publishers not using rights, I can’t think of any where a book is opened for preorders and then within a few hours multiplier copies at a discount appear on Facebook.

232BooksFriendsNotFood
heinäkuu 13, 1:20 pm

>223 Cat_of_Ulthar: “I also enjoy Folio trying different things and experimenting with styles and materials.”

Sending you a high five over the internet haha!

233Ragnaroekk
heinäkuu 13, 1:24 pm

>231 DMulvee:
Got youre point 🙂👉

>232 BooksFriendsNotFood:
The creature, being, unhold, daemon, monster Frankenstein created was an experiment as well.
You probably know how that ended 😂

234BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 13, 1:48 pm

>233 Ragnaroekk: Different forms of book binding, leather, vellum and even paper being used for books, letterpress, etc. must have all been experiments at some point (but don't quote me because I have not and don't ever intend to study the history of book making). Even if they weren't though, I'm sure capitalists would figure out a way to make one clay tablet fancier than the other lol.

235Ragnaroekk
heinäkuu 13, 1:47 pm

>234 BooksFriendsNotFood:
That's true, but doesn't it hurt to buy such an experiment and later discover that it went wrong and your expensive book will be defect all his life ?

236BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 13, 2:27 pm

>235 Ragnaroekk: Do you have an example of such a book? I've been living in FS LE heaven ever since the Roadside Picnic LE was released, and between subsequent releases and going back to purchase some older but still very recent LEs, so far none are defects. I just went and checked the following out of curiosity, but since the start of 2023, the only LEs I ended up skipping completely were Beowulf, Thucydides, and Darwin — I have highly enjoyed all the rest.

I feel like with Folio, they have the book ready by the time you pay for it so you know exactly what you're getting, whereas most fine press is pre-order based and you don't have all the details and things may even change during the production process, so that's much more of a risk for me.

Also, if I'm going to spend $800 anyways, I'd prefer this paper 1984 which may get a crease along the side of the spine after you read the book much more than any other 2nd tier / deluxe level fine press book out there, which would be a similar price, so it's not surprising that this is what I purchased. (I don't think there's a Lettered or Roman Numeral fine press edition that exists that I'd prefer over this either, now that I think about it.) I'd say consumers are usually pretty good at knowing what makes them happy as an individual.

237Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 13, 2:38 pm

>236 BooksFriendsNotFood:
I thought we would still talk about the 1984 LE with the paper binding the experiment 🤔

The only really defective LE I ever received was Hitchhikers of the Galaxy.
Problems with the sprayed edges near the headbands, the foil blocking was miserable and had alot rubbing off.

I only have the Thucydides LE which so absolutely superb and The Shadow of the Wind, which was OK left in my collection at the moment.

238BooksFriendsNotFood
heinäkuu 13, 3:03 pm

>237 Ragnaroekk: I don't think paper binding is a "book" experiment necessarily since many books are bound in paper. It may be more of an experiment of using paper for a book which qualifies as an FS LE. And also an experiment of: can they use paper and charge exorbitant fees for the design (and title popularity?) itself, I suppose. I value books based on their design and typography rather than the materials they're made of, so I will shell out the money if I have to, but I also hope something like this would be cheaper in the future because otherwise they may price me out eventually, and I would hate that very much.

Thankfully my foiling was mostly fine on Hitchhiker's - I think one book was worse than the others, but not in a way that took away from the look of the book or the set for me personally - and my top sprayed edges didn't have problems. I'm sorry to hear that about your set.

I love my Shadow of the Wind! I expected to be underwhelmed because of its simpler design, but it quickly became a favorite haha. I had read 21% of the book or so before ordering it, but it was so pretty when it arrived that I started reading from the beginning again just to experience every word through the edition XD

239astropi
heinäkuu 13, 6:58 pm

>228 Ragnaroekk: My experience is that people who fall into the "Folio Society/Easton Press is the greatest book publisher on the planet" really don't understand many of the facets that go into making a true fine press publication. To be fair, Folio does from time to time (wish it was more often) publish true fine press books like their War Poets trilogy. And I say this as someone that started off collecting Easton Press and Folio books thinking the quality couldn't get any better -- obviously I now know that's far from the case. And I still appreciate both Easton and Folio and will still purchase books from them. I also think they did a great job of building up a base that will defend them to the death.

240Ragnaroekk
heinäkuu 13, 7:03 pm

>239 astropi:
'And I say this as someone that started off collecting Easton Press and Folio books thinking the quality couldn't get any better '

I was in the same boat 😄

241BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 13, 9:59 pm

>239 astropi: Speaking for myself, I don’t think of things as a hierarchy. Fine press is one kind of book, and maybe the technical aspects are superior, and you can say it’s higher quality for that reason, but to me, that doesn’t make it “better” than Folio Society or even a $20 book from Barnes & Noble. This is similar to how I don’t believe in high vs low art: a classical Hollywood film or a big budget movie like Dune may be higher quality technically than a Disney Channel movie, but I still don’t think one is “better” than the other. I just see different things as co-existing, and naturally people have diverging preferences.

242Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 13, 11:20 pm

>241 BooksFriendsNotFood:
Movies, just like stories in books or even music, are purely a matter of taste—I agree with that. However, the "packaging" can still be better. The story in a book is always the same, whether you have a €10 or a €1000 book.

Have you ever bought a book from the Anaconda Verlag? The translations are absolutely miserable, riddled with spelling errors, and even some translations from major publishing houses are a disaster. Take the new Lord of the Rings translation by Wolfgang Krege, for example, if you don’t want to or can’t read it in the original language. It’s written in a horrible fast-food style, just awful. The Simon Scarrow books or the early Stephen King translations into German were just done carelessly, which is why I now almost only read in English, unless the author happens to be German (Michael Ende, Markus Heitz, etc.).

Back to English.
I recently bought "Watership Down" by Richard Adams from Puffin Books (cloth-bound hardcover). It’s an absolute catastrophe to read. The glued pages and the text crammed onto each page to save as much paper as possible significantly reduce the reading pleasure. You almost have to break the spine to read the book properly. The paper is so extremely thin that it could be toilet paper, has a strong brownish tint, and smells unpleasant. Even Barnes and Noble books are not particularly great, often disguised as "Deluxe" editions, bound in some low-quality leather, yet very expensive. More appearance than substance.

Reading a quality or fine press book gives you so much pleasure, something to watch, to feel und even to smell.
Someone that doesn't agree with that has never read a real book in his whole life.
Doesn't mean you cannot enjoy reading cheaper books or on youre kindle, but its not the same wonderful experience 😊

243BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 14, 4:43 am

>242 Ragnaroekk: We're not talking about translations though, right? And I don't think anyone can really fault FS LEs for readability in terms of font or paper, so for simplicity I'll attempt to stick to discussing exteriors.

"Reading a quality or fine press book gives you so much pleasure, something to watch, to feel und even to smell.
Someone that doesn't agree with that has never read a real book in his whole life."


^^I think it's this kind of statement that forms the crux of our disagreement. I think it's a bit high and mighty to say that a simple paperback is not a real book. Similarly, while I get that some people prefer fine press over every other kind of book, I don't think it makes sense to say that people who don't feel the same way are unequivocally wrong. There has to be an allowance for individual preference imo. Something like expensiveness of materials can be objective, but on the other hand, the pleasure someone gets from something is wholly subjective.

Quick tangent as well: Most FS LEs do not pretend to be, aspire to be, or even compete with fine press, so I don't know why it's always compared to fine press and then found lacking due to always being considered from a materials or technique standpoint. Sure, the prices may be similar sometimes, but consider that the FS LE purchaser may be paying for different qualities compared to the fine press purchaser. But back to the main discussion —

The only fully fine press book I own (because I canceled my pre-order of a Lettered edition and some other fine press editions to more easily afford FS LEs) is The Waste Land, and of course I love it very much. However, I also love my very different Dune FS LE, just to take an example, and yet I don't think one is "better" than the other. I love both of them, and in fact, I actually paid more for the Dune due to secondhand pricing and I absolutely regret nothing, because vellum and letterpress do not automatically trump other considerations for me (again, people who really enjoy fine press may disagree, but this is subjective and can vary from person to person).

Even regular Folios are subject to this — I'm not just pointing a finger at the supposed superiority of fine press. For example, Pride & Prejudice from the Folio Society is $75, and it is considered good quality due to its sewn binding, acid-free paper, buckram cover, illustrations, etc. However, I do not want to own this because I find more enjoyment even from one of my copies which was originally £7 or so (but which I paid much more for in the secondhand market) which has glued pages and red sprayed edges and thin as can be paper and teeny tiny font - and I'll probably never read this specific edition because I don't want to mess it up in any way - but the single reason I love it so much is for the creative and hilarious cover.

And if we do want to talk about readability: Folio SEs are often clothbound, have pretty large font and very good acid-free paper. However, after reading primarily Folio SEs and LEs for a while, I went to a regular bookstore and bought a bunch of books (including paperbacks) and I LOVED getting back into the thin paper and the light weight books and the glued bindings. It felt SO GOOD. Reading a brilliant vellum bound letterpress book did not decrease my enjoyment of the $10 paperback or the $20 paperbound hardcover in any way. Words are words regardless of the format, so my "kink" is a cover I find attractive, and maybe an imaginary fine press lover's "kink" is high quality materials and hand craftsmanship and blood, sweat, and tears inducing techniques, and I'm sure other readers have other kinks as well, and this is okay. I remain convinced that one version of a book is not objectively "better" than any other version, and that it's all up to personal taste and what brings pleasure to the unique individual.

244astropi
heinäkuu 14, 5:38 pm

>241 BooksFriendsNotFood: Comparing the quality you get with books (or most anything) to art is rather a false equivalent. It's universally acknowledged that art be it literature, performing, movies, etc. is based upon personal opinion -- granted, when enough people say something like "this photograph is incredibly important and influential" that work of art becomes "universally acknowledged" and of course it can be decades if not longer before people truly appreciate a work of art. BUT the same does not hold for say a car. If you purchase a car that constantly falls apart, needs expensive repairs, the seats are uncomfortable, etc. you're not going to say "well, that's all just in the eye of the beholder" -- because clearly there's a big difference in comfort, reliability, etc. Just compare a $45K car vs a $7,000 second-hand lemon. I feel the same holds with books. If you purchase a fine press book for $300 the paper, the printing, the art, everything will be vastly superior to the $15 B&N edition. Not to belittle B&N, there are some people that all that matters for them is that they can read the book, and nothing wrong with that. Similarly, some people only care that the car can drive, it doesn't matter if the AC works or not etc. However, I think anyone without exception would agree that the fine press book will aesthetically and tactically be far superior to the $15 mass-produced book. All that said, I certainly agree people have different opinions and that's of course natural, but again, the differences between a fine press and "normal" edition is like the difference between night and day.

245BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 14, 6:54 pm

>244 astropi: “I think anyone without exception would agree that the fine press book will aesthetically and tactically be far superior to the $15 mass-produced book.”

Aesthetics is very subjective. For example, someone who hated the FS 1984 mentioned that the Suntup 1984 editions are amazing. Whereas I find all of the Suntup 1984 editions very ugly and wouldn’t pay even $15 for them at any tier.

And I do find my signet classics, paperback, mass produced Animal Farm (https://www.amazon.com/Animal-Signet-Classics-George-Orwell/dp/0812415078) much more appealing than the Suntup letterpress Animal Farm AE. I bought the former because I liked the cover and it made me want to read the book, whereas again, I find the Suntup AE ugly and you couldn’t pay me to put it in my bookshelf.

(I don’t mean to throw Suntup under the bus, but these were the first examples that came to mind.)

To add a car example: let’s say there is a BMW vs the Iron Man edition of the Hyundai Kona, and someone is allowed to pick any one of the two and they can get it for free. There will be at least a few people in the world who will choose the Iron Man car even though it is cheaper, because they find it more appealing and thus they like it better. This is my point.

I don’t think I’m going to change your mind about fine press not being everyone’s favorite thing ever though so I’ll agree to disagree.

EDITING to add that not a single one of my childhood paperbacks has fallen apart and they have moved countries with me twice, so I don’t believe ”If you purchase a car that constantly falls apart, needs expensive repairs, the seats are uncomfortable, etc. you're not going to say "well, that's all just in the eye of the beholder" is even relevant here.

246boldface
heinäkuu 14, 6:51 pm

>244 astropi:

Personally, I prefer a falling-apart dictionary to a battered, broken-down car. It's a lot cheaper and in all likelihood it'll take you from A to B - at least for a spell.

247Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 14, 7:01 pm

>242 Ragnaroekk:
"We're not talking about translations though, right? And I don't think anyone can really fault FS LEs for readability in terms of font or paper, so for simplicity I'll attempt to stick to discussing exteriors."
‐------------
All those things are part of a good quality book. Don't they?
So such things executed in excellence will make a book indeed "better" then others.
Why buy a smartphone for 1000£ if you can have one for 10£. Correct ! It's superior in alot of its features. Better case and screen, faster CPU etc...
‐---------
"Quick tangent as well: Most FS LEs do not pretend to be, aspire to be, or even compete with fine press, so I don't know why it's always compared to fine press and then found l..."
--------
Folio Society limited editions for me are Fine Press, when the book is bound by book artisans, by hand, using the best available materials. I don't care about the letterpress aspect. I love letterpress printing, but its no problem if its offset printed on very good paper. Letterpress printing makes the book better in my opinion though 🙂
In the end "fine press" is just a word we use, but its meaning isn't carved in stone... I hate this discussion so much.
------

I have nothing more to say.
>244 astropi: hit the nail on the head. I fully agree with his statement.

One last word:
A folio society edition will always be superior and better in every aspect, to a 7£ paperpack. Otherwise why would someone buy expensive books ? Where is the purpose in obtaining them if they are not "objectively" better than the 7£ version.

I could understand youre argument if you would compare 1984 from Suntup with 1984 from St. James Park Press.
Both are expensive fine press books with different materials and art. In the end, it is youre taste, what you prefer.

If every book would cost 200£, there wouldn't be much people left reading them. A paperpack version is a cheap option for 99% of the world population and you can't deny that a paperpack version is inferior to the Hardcover version (quality wise). The Hardcover inferior to a folio society or Easton press version and so on.

248BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 14, 7:01 pm

>247 Ragnaroekk: “A folio society edition will always be superior and better in every aspect, to a 7£ paperpack.”

Agree to disagree with you as well lol. An individual cannot find something superior personally if they themself don’t like it in the first place.

As an alternate example, I bought Suntup’s Psycho AE just because it has probably the only nice dust jacket cover for that book, but the sewn binding, unattractive half cloth exterior, and letterpress mean nothing to me. I would’ve easily bought a 7 GBP version glued paperback if it just had that same cover. Thus, I didn’t pay $200 for the aspects that someone like yourself considers “superior”; instead, I literally just paid the full $200 for the nice cover and the nice cover alone.

249Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 14, 7:18 pm

>247 Ragnaroekk:
Nahhhhhhh. It doesn't matter if you like the book. Take two books , 1 bound in the best cloth available and 1 bound in the cheapest cloth available.
You can now say that you don't like both, but you can't deny that the first book has the better cloth .

You buy a book with dust jacket and say that the binding looks unattractive? You will never see the binding in youre shelf, when it's wearing its Jacket 😁

200$ just for a Dust Jacket ... my head is spinning right now. 😁

250astropi
heinäkuu 14, 7:57 pm

To add a car example: let’s say there is a BMW vs the Iron Man edition of the Hyundai Kona, and someone is allowed to pick any one of the two and they can get it for free.

But you can NOT get it for free! Cars cost money, and so do books. If you get get stuff for free we might be having a very different discussion here, but if you want your Folio books you have to pay.

EDITING to add that not a single one of my childhood paperbacks has fallen apart and they have moved countries with me twice, so I don’t believe ”If you purchase a car that constantly falls apart, needs expensive repairs, the seats are uncomfortable, etc. you're not going to say "well, that's all just in the eye of the beholder" is even relevant here.

Disagree, it's absolutely relevant here. I took good care of my last vehicle before I traded it in, but eventually it was time to trade it in because it was not worth the costs of repairs. I got a good value for it because I took good care of it. But at the end of the day, the money I got from my Hyundai is just a small fraction of what I would have gotten if I say had a Porsche to trade-in (if only :)
Fine press books are like a Porsche or some other luxury car. And sure, a non-luxury car will get you from A to B, but all the extra features and quality that make a luxury car luxury, is why people spend big bucks on them, and why bibliophiles will spend (relatively) big bucks on fine press.

251BooksFriendsNotFood
heinäkuu 14, 8:35 pm

>249 Ragnaroekk: "It doesn't matter if you like the book."

Well, it depends on what you mean by the term "superior". If you are saying that fine press is usually superior SPECIFICALLY in quality of materials used and longevity and craftsmanship, then I already agreed with this in >243 BooksFriendsNotFood:. However, if you are just saying that fine press books are "superior" as a blanket statement, i.e. that it is superior in all aspects, then this isn't even possible because some of those aspects are subjective, such as aesthetics, design, etc. For example, organic grapes may be superior in terms of healthiness (objective), and genetically modified grapes may be superior in terms of taste (subjective) or size (objective), but it doesn't really make sense imo to say one is superior over the other without being specific about the aspect you are referring to.

So to answer your question about the 2 books that I hypothetically both find ugly, the one bound in the best cloth is obviously superior in quality of materials used, but neither are superior as a subjective blanket statement because clearly, I find them both ugly ;)

Also regarding Suntup's Psycho, I'll have to see the unattractive half-cloth binding when I read the specific edition since I read books with the dust jacket off! This is why I usually place the dust jacket within visibility range while reading LOL.

I usually don't see FS LEs as fine press (with obvious exceptions, of course). To speak about it very shallowly, many fine press productions seems to focus very heavily on the book itself by using quality materials, and any slipcase or solander box is oftentimes very plain (although there are certainly examples where the outer case is spectacular and the book looks plain *cough* Amaranthine Sherlock Lettered *cough*), whereas newer FS LEs often expand beyond the book - which I find superior in aesthetic appeal but obviously they're usually NOT superior in terms of materials - and create attractive outer boxing, additional art prints, hidden art in the slipcase, occasional paraphernalia such as stickers, etc. It's just all-in-all such a lovely package to receive and own, and this is why I find it superior PERSONALLY (subjective blanket statement). Whereas other people find fine press superior for THEMSELVES (subjective blanket statement), and both of these are awesome and totally valid opinions. 👍

252BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 14, 8:48 pm

>250 astropi: In my example, whichever of the two vehicles the person chooses is free for them because I can afford the Folio LE or the fine press if I wanted to, but I CHOOSE Folio LEs. So I am not considering price as a variable. And like I mentioned in response to >249 Ragnaroekk:, this doesn't mean Folio LEs are superior in terms of quality materials and craftsmanship, because they're most likely usually NOT and fine press will usually be superior in these aspects. However, Folio LEs are superior in APPEAL for ME PERSONALLY, whereas fine press is obviously superior in APPEAL for YOU PERSONALLY, and that's great. So if your argument is that fine press is superior specifically in terms of materials, longevity, and craftsmanship, I have never disagreed with that ◡̈

I understand broken down vehicles, but I don't see how this is relevant to our book discussion since even my old paperbacks have not broken down and it's probably even more rare for Folio books to somehow reach an unusable state. And while in many countries you need a car in order to...well, survive...you don't need fancy books - or even books - to survive, so reselling isn't a must, and maintenance even less so. (I have never done either of these things.) Assuming you cannot donate it, just throw away the book once you have no more use for it! (Slightly tongue in cheek but also kind of serious.) But also, if we do want to bring price into it, if your $7 book dies, you can re-buy hundreds more for the price of the fine press version haha. Anyways, I mentioned that price is purposefully irrelevant in my example so this is also kind of why I don't think this is relevant. But this whole paragraph is a tangent and I hope we can agree that fine press is typically superior in terms of material quality, longevity, craftsmanship, etc. while they cannot be superior to everyone in the world in terms of design and personal appeal!

253Ragnaroekk
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 15, 1:50 am

>252 BooksFriendsNotFood:
I give a random book dude my Folio Society "Godfather " by Mario Puzo with alot of small little details and illustrations and then my paperpack version with just a cover illustration.
There isn't anyone in the world that would take the paperback version and says: "The Cover Illustration is so beautiful, give me that and to hell with that Folio Edition."
If someone needs to buy one of those Editions I can understand when he/she is taking the 7£ paperpack, because like you said, Folios are very expensive and I could buy 10 paperbacks with that money one Folio would cost me.

This discussion is really weird. I can't believe we really discuss if a 7£ paperpack has more design and personal appeal than a real book with nice type setting, good error free grammar/translation, acid free paper, alot of Illustrations and so on... I repeat myself...
The design of a paperback book is just the cover art, nothing more, same for most standard hardcover.

254Dr.Fiddy
heinäkuu 15, 4:09 am

Dust Jackets can be bought directly from Suntup for $20…

255astropi
heinäkuu 15, 6:00 am

>253 Ragnaroekk: I can't believe we really discuss if a 7£ paperpack has more design and personal appeal than a real book with nice type setting, good error free grammar/translation, acid free paper, alot of Illustrations and so on

And yet here we are eh :)
I know some people collect paperbacks, but in general (like you) I can't imagine a single person let alone a bibliophile who can't clearly see the differences between cheap paperbacks and an Easton Press, Folio Society, or truly fine press publications. I really don't think it's up for debate. Of course if for some reason someone prefers their paperback over a fine press publication more power to them -- I would imagine their wallet is thanking them.

256BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 15, 6:24 am

At the end of the day, I’m not a collector, I’m a reader. I just end up having a lot of books due to the latter. If someone cannot accept freedom of personal preference and that not everyone always wants acid-free paper or sewn bindings or non-paper exteriors just because a lot of people value these things, then there’s nothing more to discuss here.

>254 Dr.Fiddy: Also, complete brain fart on my end because I just remembered the illustrations, which I also like! But I’d need a copy of a book that fits the dust jacket anyways.

>253 Ragnaroekk: ‘There isn't anyone in the world that would take the paperback version and says: "The Cover Illustration is so beautiful, give me that and to hell with that Folio Edition."’

Is your argument that I’m not a person? 😹 Anyways, there is a reason I only got into Folio in 2022-2023 when they started having more beautiful book covers. There is a reason I’m never interested in older Folio books or purchase them even when they’re heavily discounted in sales.

Yet another example: I strongly dislike the FS Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. Yet there’s a beautiful mass printed hardcover coming out soon: https://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Strange-Mr-Norrell-Novel/dp/1526681552/ref=monar...

If I desired to own a copy of the book, it would be the latter. Someone who goes along with what other people like is either easily influenced, doesn’t know their own preferences, or coincidentally just likes the same thing their friend likes.

257astropi
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 15, 6:26 am

>256 BooksFriendsNotFood: I’m not a collector, I’m a reader.
And no one said there's anything wrong with that. While all of us love reading our books, we are collectors and this group is for collectors.

There is a reason I never look for older Folio books or purchase them when they’re heavily discounted in sales.
Can't say I understand that. Folio has had gorgeous covers for decades, and many of their older publications are just as beautiful as any they release today. In my opinion it seems shortsighted to just dismiss them outright.

Someone who goes along with what other people like is either easily influenced, doesn’t know their own preferences, or coincidentally just likes what their friend likes.
Or, that person happens to agree with others, especially if those "others" happen to be very knowledgeable and have been collecting for decades :)

258Ragnaroekk
heinäkuu 15, 6:30 am

>256 BooksFriendsNotFood:
No disrespect, sorry. Iam just bluffed .
Had never imagined youre steadiness on this topic. Be honest... are you a robot ? 😁

259BooksFriendsNotFood
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 15, 6:45 am

>257 astropi: ”While all of us love reading our books, we are collectors and this group is for collectors.”

I thought it was just a group for people who like The Folio Society.

“Can't say I understand that. Folio has had gorgeous covers for decades, and many of their older publications are just as beautiful as any they release today. In my opinion it seems shortsighted to just dismiss them outright.”

Another example of our disagreement. Just because you like a cover does not mean that I will like a cover, and this does not reflect negatively on me, nor on you. There is no right or wrong when it comes to book or book cover preference.

Or, that person happens to agree with others, especially if those "others" happen to be very knowledgeable and have been collecting for decades :)”

Same thing here: I don’t think someone is more knowledgeable just because they like covers that I find unattractive, or because they’ve been collecting for longer (which would really only mean that you’ve been alive longer than me because I’ve always been a reader). Just like there is no objectively superior book edition that works for everyone in all of its facets, there is no objectively superior person/collector.

260BooksFriendsNotFood
heinäkuu 15, 6:53 am

I feel like one of the primary functions of a book cover is to grab the reader’s attention and convince them that this is a book they should check out, this is a book they’ll like. This is probably why covers are always being updated, so that they grow the book’s audience (different covers will work for different readers). If a book cover makes me go ick, I’m not going to add insult to injury by putting that thing in my home.

261BooksFriendsNotFood
heinäkuu 15, 7:06 am

>258 Ragnaroekk: (James Bond voice) It’s Worm. Book Worm. Nice to meet you. 🤓

262Cat_of_Ulthar
heinäkuu 15, 7:31 am

>257 astropi: '... we are collectors and this group is for collectors.'

Actually, I don't think that's a condition of membership or a requirement for posting.

The group is Folio Society Devotees, not Folio Society Collectors.

That being the case, could all the haters please vacate the premises in an orderly manner. Thank you for your attention. The white zone is for loading and unloading.

We need to keep our echo chamber pure, you know ;-)

If I can be more serious the actual description is: 'Welcome to Folio Society Devotees, a Library Thing forum for those who are interested in discussing the beautiful books published by the Folio Society. Everyone is most welcome to join.'

263assemblyman
heinäkuu 15, 7:39 am

264Cat_of_Ulthar
heinäkuu 15, 8:02 am

>30 wongie: 'focusing on illustrating the propaganda itself'

You got it. Having read it, that's exactly what they did. And confused the hell out of people in the process, lol ;-)

265Cat_of_Ulthar
heinäkuu 15, 8:14 am

>69 EPsonNY: 'Solander box seems to be a a bit boring black speckled silver-board to which 20-year or 30-year old children may attach the "bits and pieces," thus ruining future collectible resale value ;).'

Punk lives. ;-)

266EPsonNY
heinäkuu 15, 8:40 am

>265 Cat_of_Ulthar: Yes, it does.

Get ready for the Canticle LE with a built-in segment of rosary made with locally grown wood and crafted by the affable Shire's folks. Once you get through the Hail Marys, finish Our Father and tug on the beads, the solander box cover will pop up like a nuclear explosion mushroom cloud to reveal an overpriced paper-bound edition resembling a Holy Book of a non-descript, all-inclusive, non-existing religion.

267Ragnaroekk
heinäkuu 15, 9:06 am

>261 BooksFriendsNotFood:
🤭
I assume my sister is like you. I had some kind of discussion of this kind last year, and our disagreement in our both opinion led to a heating discussion.

I think I need to accept that all people are equal, but some are more equal than others. (🙈)

268affle
heinäkuu 17, 9:26 am

I have led a long life, full of books, yet the FS's latest email offers me something never previously encountered: an 'immersive unboxing experience'. Will this be a temptation leading to purchase of this singular edition? Perhaps FSDs with less sheltered pasts would be kind enough to share their own favourite immersive unboxing experiences to help me decide.

269Thwack
heinäkuu 17, 9:40 am

>268 affle: "an 'immersive unboxing experience'"

Oh dear.

270HonorWulf
heinäkuu 17, 9:48 am

>268 affle: My unboxing experiences are always filled with trepidation of shipping damage.

271Jayked
heinäkuu 17, 12:55 pm

>268 affle:
My sole immersive experience came with the delivery of the Eric Gill Gospels LE, which Fedex had contrived to drop into a large puddle, or possibly a small burn or rill. As it dripped inexorably into my Hush Puppies the delivery man kindly suggested that I not sign for it, so I was spared full submersion.

272SF-72
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 18, 4:47 am

>270 HonorWulf:

That or issues due to poor or no quality control. My full enjoyment comes afterwards, when I can be sure everything is okay.

273boldface
heinäkuu 17, 6:47 pm

>268 affle:

My most immersive unboxing experience came from the R S Surtees Society, not FS. I opened the package and was engulfed in a cloud of flies which had hatched out in transit. Now, that’s true horror!

274FitzJames
heinäkuu 17, 7:01 pm

>271 Jayked: "or possibly a small burn or rill" Superb haha!

And how was the bedewed Gill?

275astropi
heinäkuu 17, 7:03 pm

>273 boldface: Please tell me the title was "Lord of the Flies" :)

276Cat_of_Ulthar
heinäkuu 18, 12:53 am

>274 FitzJames: 'And how was the bedewed Gill?'

I hope that miracle of rare device survived its dunking in a sinuous rill!

277affle
heinäkuu 18, 6:14 am

It seems immersive unboxing is not an entirely happy affair - no doubt the FS had that in mind for a dystopian novel. Too clever by half for me, so I'll let the opportunity pass me by. But I'm left wondering what kind of immersive experience they would do for a reprint of 20,000 Leagues under the Sea?

278Cat_of_Ulthar
Muokkaaja: heinäkuu 18, 7:46 am

>277 affle: 'But I'm left wondering what kind of immersive experience they would do for a reprint of 20,000 Leagues under the Sea?

Printed on waterproof paper (https://www.waterproofpaper.com/waterproof-journal.shtml), each copy dispatched in a cast-iron claw-foot bath with its own built-in water heater and a box of bath salts.

Enter your email address and you could win a genuine live giant squid in its own display tank.

Comes with the added bonus that it won't be harmed by the rain when your courier leaves it on the doorstep ;-)

279astropi
heinäkuu 18, 6:56 pm

>278 Cat_of_Ulthar: Sign me up! and I'll sign in this --

280boldface
heinäkuu 20, 2:27 pm

>275 astropi:

It should have been, but alas, no! To be honest, I've forgotten which title it was, but it was definitely by Surtees, not Golding - so one of the Jorrocks novels or associated texts. Fortunately, the book was fine once its inhabitants had departed. Previous to purchase, it had been kept in storage by a Society officer in a barn in Somerset. Happy days.