Kate is fed up with reading fiction with agendas

Kathleen is I love good literary fiction but lately it’s hard to find a novel that doesn’t try to balance the centuries of books that ignored “minorities “. The balance should be naturally redressed lest it make a mockery of the very ppl it’s trying to empower.

Being a single mum is not a virtue. Being a powerful woman is an achievement. But does every character have to be a stereotype? Make a statement?

But what I find really troubling is that one gets cowed down, even cancelled if you express an opinion that goes against the current pc trend.

I recently started to discuss a sci-fi novel that had a non-binary character/being. It appeared to me that it had several personas. It used plural pronoun s . When I mentioned how I found it confusing when I came across sentences such as “They left the room” I was reprimanded. How I was meant to know the fantasy character’s pronouns is beyond me.

Often now I am too scared even to comment and am attempting to stick to non-western literature which reflects honestly the lives it describes.

I feel like there is a lot of negativity online. And that there is also a lot of woke literary stereotypes that demand not to taken as stereotypes, and a lot of over-praise/protection of nonbinary stuff in literature (that may be great, regardless). Is it true?

>2 dchaikin: it’s true. It’s also true that some of these novels may be great. But we are all entitled to our tastes and if a fantasy character is in a book and there’s no drawing of the being, and I read, “they left the room” in chapter one, I’m going to assume there were several beings, or multi-faceted beings, leaving and give up. Whatever one’s views on sex/gender, the default sex/gender should not be non-binary, on population proportionality alone.

I was proud of being woke in the beginning of its emergence, now I cringe. An artist should write what they like as long as they aren’t inciting violence. And readers should be allowed to criticize without fear of being ridiculed, accused of being ultraright wing and being cancelled.

It’s a pity. I’m sure they are great novels out there. I couldn’t read Shuggie Bain for example, even though I try to read every Booker. It sounded like a treatise in the reviews.

It’s the same with children’s books. It’s like the west is trying to make up , in a single stride, the under representation of minorities.

I fear a backlash, and that would be a pity.

I listened the Shuggie Bain. I thought it was good, and a worthy winner, but also overly long.

>4 dchaikin: I intend to give it a go. I las sure it must be good; it’s just the tack some of the reviews turned me off.

I've been reading a poetry collection by African author Akwaeke Emezi who identifies as "they" .... "They" write some excellent poetry and I've enjoyed the collection. My hubby and I had a nice discussion about identity /use of pronouns...etc. Probably not the last conversation on the subject....

I really can’t identify myself as a pronoun. I’ve decided to identify as a verb. ;-)

People seem too fearful of discussing grammar even in a group about literatute, so far have the trans activists managed to bully men and women regardless of sexual preference.

I’m old and unwell so have nothing to lose —- but that’s not entirely true. Being ignored is hurtful.

I make a valid point. I’ll make it again - what does the use of they/them add to a piece of literature? It’s confusing as it can mean the third person is of unknown sex/gender or the third person is plural. Does it not matter if the entity being referred to is hiding their gender or is more than one person.

Making a word have different meanings regardless of context does not seem to have any benefit.

Oops, wrong post. Not that anyone seems interested which I find odd. Will repost under correct topic

I have been following along, but haven't posted as I'm not sure I have much to add. I haven't read a book where the author used they/them, so I don't know how it would impact my enjoyment or understanding of the book. I can imagine that if not handled well, it could be confusing. I think it's an important issue for some readers and authors, so I'm not against it outright, and it may be less confusing to those who are more used to using they/them. That's all I've got! :-)

>10 labfs39: I agree with what you are saying. I’ve only read one book that used they/them as non-binary pronouns. A Psalm for the Wild-Built. It is a sci-fi fantastic novel that had good reviews. I was all into it, till the main character left the room and to paraphrase it read,”They left the room”.

I really thought that the imaginary being was a multiple of sorts, especially as he wasn’t human. I read a few more chapters imagining the character as some four-legged fantasy creature, till it became obvious it was a singular non-binary being.

For me they/them means plural. I can’t compute it otherwise.

Maybe it’s because I studied Latin. Maybe it’s my age. Maybe it’s my love of language and grammar. It’s not political for me. I’m only referring to literature as is appropriate in this group.

When politics affect the arts there’s always a problem.

>11 kjuliff: I think grammatists have a similar issue with the use of they in place of he or she, for instance, "I called to make an appointment, and they said they had an opening on Tuesday." This is not because the receptionist was non-binary, but simply as a way to avoid gender altogether. I usually don't have a problem following the conversation when it is used this way. Do you find this sort of usage problematic?

>12 labfs39: Agreed

I see no need to know the gender of people I don’t know. And non-binary is a gender. I would wonder why hide one’s binary gender. But my point was about using a pronoun that may mean plural or singular gender in a story.

If I read “They left the building” I assume more than one person left. If it’s important to the story that the person leaving the building is non-binary I think it should be made clear. Otherwise my default is “they” is plural.

When in conversation the gender/sex is irrelevant saying “They told meto arrive by 3” it’s clear as sex, gender, plural, singular doesn’t come into it.