Rob Roy LE

A new Limited Edition from Folio Society.
https://www.foliosociety.com/au/robroy?fbclid=IwAR0i-WCZyfFG2plfI_UFkxRMDShrwi1P...
Does not seem to be on sale yet.

How did you find that?! Doesn’t appear yet when you go through the website. I’m glad for the alert...not sure what I think about the illustrations - a bit too comic book of a feel for a classic novel.

Edit: Not “comic book” on second look - but certainly not classic type illustrations.

Well spotted, Warwick. I'll keep returning to the page at intervals until they finally get it live. Those Walter Scott fans hoping for the complete edition will have to settle for this, it seems.

It is odd, is it not, that the FS having done so little Walter Scott - just three books from his enormous oeuvre - they should repeat one of them in this way? Not that the repetition will have much bearing on my buying choice: looks alone will rule this one out.

Still not accessible from the main website or by a search but it’s live now and I just put my order in.

>5 affle: my thoughts entirely, Alan!

Not a bonnie lass to me sadly.

>5 affle: Especially as the previous edition had Ann Muir marbled sides and very accomplished wood engravings by George Tute. All it lacked was quarter bound leather.

I would have thought Ivanhoe would be the more obvious choice. Still, when disgruntled Scottites started up on the Philip K. Dick LE stories thread, I did foretell a limited edition of Redgauntlet, so I wasn't far off!

The illustrations are...strange. Plus, I already have the other 2001 Rob Roy, which I rather like the look of. So this LE will be a pass for me.

I do find it strange that whenever they are choosing to publish classics, they are always redoing something already done by them...Herodotus, The three Musketeers, Rob Roy. There have to be many classics that they haven't already printed in the past...why not pick from them?

Oh no, I've waited so long and can't help but feel a certain disappointment.

Scarce were the Scott publications and here we get a repeat of one of the three.

And then, I'm not at all moved by the illustrations, the binding, the slipcase.

Drat.

>5 affle: It is odd, is it not, that the FS having done so little Walter Scott - just three books from his enormous oeuvre - they should repeat one of them in this way?

It's very odd, Alan. I'm sure his fans will be as disappointed as I am. But I'll have to disagree with you regarding the looks, especially the full leather binding.

I haven't read Scott but I do love classics and I am glad that FS are putting out books like this. At first glance I was put off by the aesthetics but after a bit of reflection I sort of like the rather bold design choice. The previous SE edition is designed more like an LEC to my eye. Recent full leather LEs have struck me as close to EP in design. This has it's own look entirely and I think it is to be commended though it is not traditional. The price is high but we are clearly paying for the materials here which is a good reason to raise the price. This is a maybe for me but we all know how that goes. A maybe now is a NEED when the limitation starts to dry up. I just need a little enablement on the content since I am uninitiated.

I like the presentation generally, but is it just me, or do all of the characters in the interior illustrations look exactly the same? The only differentiation seems to be the clothes, as though they were paper dolls with different outfits.

I’ve never read it, so I’ve just picked up the 2001 SE for 1/20th the price of the LE to see if I like it enough to pick up the LE someday

The design and illustrations are not for me and £295 seems steep when you compare it to recent LEs of similar looking standards. I read this earlier in the year and thought it was great (I think it may have been a reread as the story was very familiar) but it will be no from me. I prefer the earlier volume with the marbled cover and those lovely George Tute illustrations.

>14 jsg1976: I thought the exact same thing especially when they are opposite each other.

For those you do like the artwork on this one.

https://www.theroyalglasgowinstituteofthefinearts.co.uk/exhibition-announcement-...

I would like a nice copy of some of Scott’s novels. Alas, the design isn’t to my taste and so this is a pass from me

Hmm, I have the Ann Muir standard edition (which has some of the most beautiful marbling I’ve seen) and find this one a bit peculiar. The illustration label on the slipcase is nice but the tattooed bicep on the cover figure is bizarre to me. I haven’t read the book yet but I’ll assume this was artistic license. Production details seem ok, full leather is of course nice, but absent it and the signatures, it strikes me as more of a fine edition than limited. What makes it so special?

What is it with the Folio Society and classics nowadays?

That has got to be the least attractive LE I can recall seeing. Even the horrible Dumas publications look better than this. Or, at least, they are no worse. It seems that the FS just don't get classics any more. They're previous standard edition was vastly better.

And, why oh why yet another rehash? (I might have even forked out for a decent Ivanhoe).

Not a Scott aficionado, but plenty of sympathy for folks wanting a "new" one published, instead of a repeat.

The design strikes me as - not wonderful, not awful - somehow peculiar. A mixture of elements not quite adding up.

I don't like the illustrations at all (weird colours, no real individuality of the characters, no range at all - it's almost only a certain type of image of a person or two, as opposed to other possibilities). Judging by what I read here and just saw on the internet, the older edition is a lot more appealing to me.

I could imagine that they picked this specific novel because there's a relatively recent and successful film, and it fits with the enthusiasm for Scotland in connection to the Outlander series. Ergo the Gabaldon link. I really don't think that their main target audience are lovers of classic literature in this case, but more people who would buy this because of those two connections. Call me cynical, but it fits more recent decisions by FS.

>22 SF-72: do you mean the Liam Neeson Rob Roy? Wasn’t that around 20 years ago?

>20 Willoyd: And, why oh why yet another rehash?

I can only guess there's a substantial cost saving when the text file checked and edited to Folio's standards is there and ready to be used.

The presentation isn't positively off-putting to me as various other LEs have been lately, but I can't say I find it enticing. Probably easy for me to leave alone, then: I'll be interested to see how it fares. I gather Diana Gabaldon has a following, so perhaps her name will help considerably to propel sales.

The other major consideration for me is the price blow-out.

At basically AUD $1000 for the book Inc express delivery, I believe that its just not priced properly.

Hmm, on first inspection not for me either. A good story and I like the binding and colour, the illustrations put me off though. I agree that they all look like the same person in different clothes, completely emotionless expressions as well.

More Alan Lee, Andrew Davidson, classical art please and less art like that in Sharpe, Herodotus and now Rob Roy. Although I enjoyed the art for the Philip K. Dick short stories a lot. Art is of course subjective, perhaps I am being educated.
Note. Generally I think Folio choose well.

It's okay for a limited edition, maybe i'll buy it, maybe not. I just feel for the past two years Folio is making easy generic choices which no longer impress me as much - there are too many okays these days. In '19 I loved Studies from Nature and Gargantua and Pantagruel, but ever since then I feel there is a lack of creativity and the newer Folio LE are much more like generic fine press books. Rob Roy is a good novel and I am not unhappy with the choice, I just wish it wasn't the same 8-10 pictures, gilded page tops, leather with a decorated slipcase for a very expensive price. It just seems like a lazy and selling out trend; I would appreciate more creativity, even if that results in a higher price tag.

**Edit - it also doesn't help with the thread of favorite LE next to this thread. If this and many other LE these past two years were rated I would certainly put them in my least favorite of the bunch.

>27 Joshbooks1:
Reading your post clarifies for me my ongoing sense of disappointment on this front. Agree absolutely! Thank you.

>27 Joshbooks1: very good point, when we have been discussing and thinking of the Faerie Queen, the Door in the Wall, Alice in Wonderland, etc. To then have an LE released was probably a bit unfair on that LE, it was doomed!

>23 Charon49:

So it is, but it's still a lot better known and popular among a younger audience than other films based on the author's works. Part of that is certainly that later on Liam Neeson had a surprising turn in his career by becoming a popular action star at an age when that's not what usually happens. Combined with the increased interest in certain Scottish topics in connection with Outlander, I could imagine that the appeal is simply larger than with other books by him. Getting Gabaldon on board was also a smart move in that context.

I don’t mind the design or illustrations as much as I feared from reading the comments and I’m pretty tradition bound in my book style preferences. However, the price is absolutely prohibitive for a work I already own in a lovely Anne Muir marbled edition which I acquired for around $20. An easy pass, just like most of the LEs since the beloved Joe Whitlock Blundell retired.

Other than being leather, this doesn't "look" like a limited to me at all. Oh, the illustrations are... uninspiring, to say the least.

I'm a huge Walter Scott fan but NO!, just NO! I'm beyond disappointed by this edition. They had a chance to do something really special and have produced something that doesn't even approach ordinary. I don't think I can say any more than that I wouldn't have it as a gift.

Sorry about the rant but I am angry and upset by this abomination.
For this sort of money you could get either of the LEC Ivanhoe's, a complete Centenary edition, or for half the price (I just checked) an 1818 2nd Edition Rob Roy in half leather with marbled boards.
I know who'll be getting my money and it won't be Folio. The thing is, if it doesn't sell it will give them more reason to release even fewer classics but maybe that's a good thing if this is the best they can do.

>33 bradleyrees: Perhaps we should begin a 'Your Least Favourite Limited Edition' or 'What Were Folio Thinking?' thread. This Rob Joy LE could be a shoo-in for a few of us, judging from the comments here so far.

I was eagerly looking forward to a new LE, and I’d like to read Rob Roy. Unfortunately, the design of this one isn’t for me, so, I’d rather get the 2001 SE.

I absolutely love the binding, color scheme, and illustrations, particularly the cover illustration, but, alas, I can't afford LEs or rather justify that much of an expense.

If the "Add to Cart" feature is a reliable way to gauge sales, they've sold a whopping 27 copies so far - 723 copies can be added to the cart.

>37 Lock_Stock: Pretty good for a book that still doesn't seem to actually be officially listed.

>34 cronshaw: Don't get me started. A "What Were Folio Thinking?' thread would, I'm afraid, probably get me thrown off LT. There have been so many things they have done over the past few years that have caused me to wonder exactly that.
A new job has improved my finances to the point where LE's are now a possibility rather than a dream except for the fact that now produce so little (either SE or LE) that tempts me. My last new LE was 'Love is Enough' and although I like it a lot I don't know that the quality is that much better than say Beowulf or News From Nowhere. Still, there are many beautiful books that have been produced by FS and others over the past 50 years on which I'd rather spend my money.
I missed my chance to get the Morris 'Odes of Horace' and was looking on the secondary market but thought I would search FSD to see if there was much information available. Sure enough, there was a substantial thread where the Bodleian version was mentioned. Going to their website I discovered it was still available and still half-price (!) even though the thread was from 2014. It is a beautiful production and apart from the leather binding seems to be almost identical to the FS version. This got me thinking and I now have the OUP version of the 'Poetic Edda' by Carolyne Larrington. A rather plain binding rather than the gorgeous leather that I imagine was one of the major selling points for the FS version, no illustrations and no Old Norse but at $38.95(AU) + postage it's a very worthwhile purchase. I also recently acquired Booth's London Poor Maps ($100AU) from Thames & Hudson. A major and beautiful production but I shudder to think what FS would charge for exactly the same quality if they would even contemplate such a thing.
Anyway, I'm off to reread Rob Roy in the lovely Ann Muir marbled version. Proof, if needed, that not all that long ago FS knew how to produce lovely and affordable books.

The most beautiful aspect of this production is the slipcase. I can't see how anyone can get excited by such expressionless illustrations (the backgrounds do look vivid though). Not a fan of the "Sowing the Wind" style colors on the cover also. I haven't read anything from the author so maybe there's a higher connection I'm not getting.

>34 cronshaw: Rob Joy? Hah, Freudian slip or deliberate?

>40 Bob__Reader:

No.

George Michael, the highlander ..

Finally you had your wish >11 LesMiserables: !

This is an excerpt from the webpage regarding the illustrations and illustrator:

'Like Scott she combines the real with the imagined, incorporating both the device of Clan MacGregor and the year of the rebel’s birth into her powerful binding design. Her striking figures, drawn in vibrant pastels on a monumental scale, bring the characters vividly to life. Packed with the motifs that recur throughout Carey’s work – the moon, fish, bare trees and the symbolic language conveying the thoughts of her subjects – these enigmatic images, all meticulously researched, perfectly capture the drama of Scott's tale.'

What I get from that is that it is a mismatch regarding the design and illustrations with what is in the book.

I'm going to buck the trend and say I like the illustrations a lot. I hadn't heard of the artist so I did a bit of searching and here is her explanation for the 'expressionless' faces so many of you seem to dislike:

'My work is contemporary figurative and has been described as surreal. My images are created from my imagination and are often derived from subconscious thoughts. My subject is usually of a solitary human being who is unable to speak.

I try to make his/her thoughts visible, which are of course, invisible. The only way I can express this is by using a symbolic language which takes the form of written words and images on the body. It is important to me that the language I use is difficult to interpret.'

source: https://paisleyartinstitute.org/artist/june-carey/

>46 Cat_of_Ulthar: What you've quoted makes me dislike the images even more. Honestly, this is the worst LE the Folio Society has produced in my time.

>46 Cat_of_Ulthar: Thanks for the information.

So, it seems the characters are deliberately expressionless (emotionless?) as they only communicate through thought, which is invisible and cannot be communicated. To get around that construct of the artist, the artist has their thoughts portrayed as written words and images, on the body. Well, that is, hmm, different? I hope they do not get a tattoo they regret later in their life!
I wonder if Folio realised the above, when they approached the artist and asked them to make some nice pictures that reflect the adventure story of the swashbuckling Rob Roy, the Scottish Robin Hood.

Ok, well, live and let live and all that. Which reminds me, I should start buying the Ian Fleming books (and more book cases).

>48 Hamwick:: You're welcome.

I haven't read the book so I can't say whether the artist's concept fits it well or not but I've ordered a copy so I guess I'll get to find out soon enough.

>49 Cat_of_Ulthar: I really hope you like it and it works well. Fingers crossed!

Thinking on the artist, her concepts could go well with books and stories of a Psychological nature. Imagine “One Flew Over the Cuckoo Nest” with emotionless faces but the imagery required to express the thought would be quite amazing. Or a book about a Psychopath. Plenty of those that Folio could make (books).

This LE prompted to purchase the 2001 SE, which looks superior in almost every respect.

>51 ultrarightist: Same!

>51 ultrarightist: I appreciate folio trying something new (I recently bought and enjoyed the Thomas Hardy LE) but the illustrations in this are really not to my liking at all.
I have the earlier SE so will stick with that

>51 ultrarightist: Thanks! Looks gorgeous indeed.

>46 Cat_of_Ulthar: That's interesting, >50 Hamwick: and I'm one of those few who ended up liking One Flew Over illustrations - so I'll reserve any further judgement and wait for >49 Cat_of_Ulthar: your feedback :)

>17 assemblyman: I’m not sure about the illustrations, and I know I won’t be splurging on this particular book. However, I live in Glasgow and literally just acquired some art from this gallery a week ago, as one of the current exhibitors is a student of a friend, so I will likely check out the exhibition of the original work.

I do not think FOMO will be a problem with this FS Limited Edition. The illustrator appears to have acquired a tainted LSD sample.

>51 ultrarightist: >52 RRCBS: Me too. SE purchased earlier this evening.

The LE is definitely not to my taste, I really don't like the illustrations.

Not my wee dram, I fear. Notwithstanding the interesting explanations from FS and the artist, I'm quite unable to appreciate those lifeless characters staring out with their blank expressions - to me, they're anaemic in emotion for such a red-blooded story. No amount of interwoven text can make up for that. Intellectual illustrations have their place, no doubt, but this is an adventure story. So, despite the thought that has gone into it, it's a pity I can't warm to this LE. For now, I'll stick to my 1893 Border Edition with its ten etchings by R. W. Macbeth A.R.A. and Samuel Bough R.S.A.

>48 Hamwick:
>46 Cat_of_Ulthar:
>47 Sorion:

OK - So looking closely at two of the the illustrations on the website to see what I can draw from the words and symbolism:
I see the portrait of the woman opposite page 124 saying she can be trusted and there is a silhouette of George Washington behind her head. Got it!
The portrait of the couple holding a string while angels sing above them maybe means something about their being excited? I haven’t read the book, so need some help here.

I can’t do it. This LE doesn’t really improve upon my old EP copy, and that’s just a standard edition with one illustration - the frontispiece. I voted for any Sir Walter Scott title to be published in that anniversary survey from a few weeks ago but this feels like an attempted fleecing. Scott deserves a series of at least a half dozen books, if not more. They don’t need to be LEs. At least give us an unfinished Dickens series-like situation!

Okay, I've slept on this, and I am doubling down on my initial response.

Some understandable responses above, and probably the most striking is the one which suggests that this looks nothing like an LE at all.

So I'm terribly disappointed that my long wait for a Scott anniversary offering has resulted in what can only be described as goulash. Expensive goulash to boot.

I’ve gone back and read the full description now and noticed the following:

“Scott’s hugely influential historical novels dominated 19th-century literature. Towards the end of his life, he revised them for the ‘Magnum Opus’ edition, published from 1829–33, in which he supplemented Rob Roy with annotations and a detailed historical introduction. The limited edition follows this definitive text, and also includes a comprehensive glossary of Scottish dialect, first published in 1893 and newly updated by Folio.”

I’m traveling and can’t check my standard edition Rob Roy currently but I assume that it does not follow the text of said ‘Magnum Opus’ edition. Can anyone confirm? If so, Scott’s annotations would be one reason to consider this LE, though it’s still going to be a struggle to warm up to the illustrations (to me they look like figures that should be on playing cards!)

>63 ChampagneSVP: The Oxford World Classics Rob Roy, edited by Ian Duncan, is described as 'newly edited from the Magnum Opus text of 1830 and includes full explanatory notes and a critical introduction exploring the originality and complexity of Scott's achievement'. The image on the front cover lacks tattoos but includes a degree of facial expression.

£7.40 including UK delivery from www.blackwells.co.uk

>63 ChampagneSVP: I’m traveling and can’t check my standard edition Rob Roy currently but I assume that it does not follow the text of said ‘Magnum Opus’ edition.

It follows the text of the first edition with minor emendations, and comes without Scott's 'Magnum Opus' introduction, which in my humble two-volume edition amounts to some 130 pages including six appendices. The LE description seems strongly to imply the presence of Scott's introduction.

>64 cronshaw: If we went the route of comparing the contents to paperbacks available on Amazon, I don’t think anyone would ever be justified in purchasing FS books.

>61 treereader:
They don’t need to be LEs.

I'd go further: they actually need to not be LEs. I've got totally fed up that pretty much the only classics publishing that FS seems to be doing now (Steinbeck aside, if he can be classed as 'classic') is with LEs. The rest is just reprint and rehash (which is, actually, what the LEs are too, even if very attractive rehashes in some cases).

>66 Lock_Stock: we know we rarely buy FS books just for the textual content!

>66 Lock_Stock: I think in this case, it may be warranted!

>68 cronshaw: >69 LesMiserables: Haha. Cheers!

The release of this LE has prompted me to buy this morning two FS editions of the Scott novels. Waverley (2011) and Rob Roy (2001) both for £34 including shipping.

>14 jsg1976: >51 ultrarightist: >52 RRCBS: >58 Hrodberht: >71 N11284:
The SE version is selling well. I suspect this might not be exactly the result that FS wanted.

Most of the new 'classics' LE's have been easy to dismiss personally, while I bemusedly watch them sell out quickly. This one, though, represents a new low. This is not illustration. Technically, it's not even good art. This is shoe-horning a sixth-form conceptual approach into an area where it simply isn't warranted by text itself. I can be sure, however, that this approach played well in art school. To think that the FS thought this the best work available does make one wonder what has been put into the office Kool-Aid these days?
*edited for questioning editorial decision making.

>73 cwl: You are, of course, entitled to your opinion on the artwork. However, when you start calling the artist's personal and professional integrity into question (accusing her - with no grounds for your accusation - of winning this commission by "calling in a favour"), then that's going too far - that's a personal attack.

>65 terebinth: The LE description seems strongly to imply the presence of Scott's introduction.

"The text reproduced here is that of the 1829 'Magnum Opus' edition including Scott's reworking of the text, his introduction and his notes, with minor emendations. The glossary included here is based on that of the 1893 edition published by A & C Black, with minor emendations." Scott's introduction runs from xxiii to lxxiv.

Those who have suddenly fallen in love with the 2001 standard edition may wish to note my own copy will shortly be appearing on eBay.

>75 folio_books:

The 'Magnum Opus' text is, and has been since it was published in 1829-32, the standard text, and the basis of all subsequent editions, that is until Edinburgh UP republished the first edition texts (i.e., original texts without the mass of notes added later in the 'magnum opus') between 1993 and 2012. Even they published two volumes at the end of their edition containing all the 'magnum opus' material. For Folio, who clearly state they are using the 'magnum opus' text, to omit Scott's notes from this LE, would be as unthinkable as to omit Gibbon's notes in an edition of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. . .

>76 boldface: as unthinkable as to omit Gibbon's notes in an edition of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. . .

Imagine them doing that ...

I mentioned it only because someone asked about it earlier.

>77 folio_books: "I mentioned it only because someone asked about it earlier."

Yes, I realise that, Glenn. I responded to you, partly because you were the last to mention it, and partly because you are always kind enough to give me a sympathetic ear!

>78 boldface:

Just ignore me, Jonathan. I'm feeling more sensitive than usual to the ongoing carping about the new LE. I do get that it's not everyone's cup of tea but I like Folio's bold attempt to do something different with Scott. Anyway, what happened to your favourite Auntie? Haven't heard from her in ever such a long time ...

>73 cwl: This seems quite inappropriate.

There doesn't seem to be much devotion happening on this 'Folio Society Devotees' message board!

>81 waystation72:
Well I bought it! Too me the binding looks excellent, but the art doesn't grab me. I do not own a copy of the SE, so thought this was a chance to dip my toe further into the Walter Scott oeuvre as Ivanhoe (in the LEC version) is the only other work of his that I have read.

Yeah Warwick, the art is perplexing. It honestly looks like work done by a Year 11 or 12 student for their portfolio.

>81 waystation72: Because of the price spikes last few years some of us have to be extremely picky. There's usually a subtle envy behind each bashing. The mob helps to keep the FAD under control... well sometimes... it's a therapy group by addicts for addicts after all.

On a relevant note, after watching the video, I did warm up to it. Unlike the portraits the double page illustration (0:35) is wonderful - the hidden messages are also intriguing. Maybe the background music helped - they nail it every time :)

>84 bacchus.: If only they'd chosen the artwork for this edition as judiciously as they chose the soundtrack for the marketing video! If I warmed up to it, it was only through calories burnt chortling in wonderment.

I think the pictures do come out better in the marketing video, and I like the double-page horse. Generally though, I concur with everyone else on being strongly against the portraits of the characters. They are unattractive and ugly.

That said, I think it's good that Folio are still rolling the dice on this type of creative LE. It would be far easier, and surely more profitable, to just get some by-the-book, tastefully done classical style pictures. Trying out new artists and going for bold designs is a much braver approach.

Just a shame it didn't really work this time.

>81 waystation72:
There doesn't seem to be much devotion happening on this 'Folio Society Devotees' message board!
Just because one is devoted, it doesn't mean one can't say when something's wrong. Indeed, sometimes it takes a best friend to say so.
Having said that, I have to confess that I'm probably here under partial false pretences nowadays - I remain devoted to FS books, particularly older ones, but I can't say I'm devoted at all to the society of today, or indeed the books it's producing, particularly in terms of its pricing. However, one can but try to keep a relationship going, even when one party seems determined to break up.

>87 Willoyd: "However, one can but try to keep a relationship going, even when one party seems determined to break up."

That is the best description of FS's 'dismemberment' model that I've read on this board.

Here's how it used to be, from the Ede obit. I cited elsewhere:

"In dealing with artists, Ede worked on clear principles. He favoured the depiction of scenes rather than incidents, and insisted on artists leaning towards understatement to avoid challenging the text."

>86 HarpsichordKnight: i do like generally like FS producing new versions of books and taking risks, however let's be honest, if you're reading Scott, you're more than likely a traditionalist, and want some more in keeping illustrations. I know I do.
I do admit the double page spreads look better than the photos on the website, and the slipcase looks good, but this artist doesn't seem overall to gel with the material.

>91 stumc: Yes, that's fair. The disconnect between book and artist in this case does feel jarring.

An example of the risky approach gone well is Steppenwolf, where they used an artist who would normally not be my style, but in that case pulled it off perfectly.

I guess you could argue that's a less traditionalist text though.

>93 CoffeeCan: You joined LT today to spam us with this here? No thank you.

My copy just arrived today (#15) - here are my first impressions - the spine is very handsome, the gold and greyish leather go well together - the slipcase is substantial and the book itself slides out nicely from the slipcase without any tightness or danger of rubbing. The cover itself with its imprinted illustration is nicely done. With regards to the illustrations themselves, I actually find them much better in person than I thought based on the images on the website. They are not necessarily what I would have chosen for the work, however, they do not take away from it as much as I had feared they would - half of them I find a bit goofy, the other half are much more fitting. The paper and type is up to the usual Folio standards. The book is fairly heavy and substantial, but not so heavy that one can't read it comfortably. I have to say, in looking at it sitting in front of me as I type it, I actually really like the way it turned out - once again, the illustrations are not what I would have chosen, but I do not think, in person, they are as bad as some on here have feared and a couple of them are actually quite nice. All in all I am glad I purchased it and is a fitting edition for the LE library. Some photos:

>95 vmb443: Great photos! My opinion has softened on this thing.

>95 vmb443: Thanks for updating us. All that being said, do you think this is LE standard and worth the price tag?

>97 LesMiserables: I would say, "yes" - I do think it's an LE, mainly because of the full leather binding - if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be sure, there's nothing that would set it off from a standard edition - though I suppose one could argue the same thing regarding The Three Musketeers and similar volumes. For me, an LE becomes an LE (outside of the obvious limitation) because of the uniqueness of the design, the illustrations, and the binding - or some combination thereof - in that sense then it's no less an LE than The Three Musketeers, but what makes it so isn't a combination of various unique things, it's the fact that it's completely bound in leather - I don't see anything particularly unique about the design and the illustrations, while not my cup of tea, are better in real life, but still nothing above what we see in Folio fine or standard editions. Maybe that's a long way of saying, "yes," I do think it's just over the line into the LE category based on the binding, but not the design or illustrations. Cost-wise? I think the Madame Bovary is a steal at its current price and I am surprised it's still sitting there - I'd say when compared to MB it's too high of a price (not sure the cost of the leather though) for what you get - I think MB is unique in its design, illustrations and binding and so is a quintessential LE - this one would be more along the lines of the recent The Histories by Herodotus or the Three Musketeers - an LE because of its binding. I am still glad I have it though, not sure if that's just my FAD or what, and it does look really nice on the shelf...

A link to the Rob Roy LE brochure is now available on the FSD wiki here.

>98 vmb443: I'm very glad you're happy with your purchase!

Full leather didn't used to be strictly exclusive to LEs in Folio days of old. Off the top of my head, the standard edition of The Lives of the Later Caesars is bound in full leather, as was the non-limited News from Nowhere.

It appears though that full leather now definitely signals LE, as current Folio strategy appears to be geared toward a maximum differentiation of LEs from standard editions at a minimum cost, to heighten profit margins, and non-limited editions no longer being bound in leather (even quarter leather is seldom seen now) is the easiest way to achieve the necessary sense of exclusivity and 'added value'. In the past the main differentiator for LEs was the sumptuousness of the leather and binding design, but I doubt we'll see many LEs with bindings as luxurious as The Kelmscott Chaucer, The Luttrell Psalter, Liber Bestiarum or Le Morte Darthur, certainly not at prices those LEs sold for.

This is why, from FS's point of view, when cost of materials is a limiting factor, it's essential to get the illustrations and overall design right, to create an added value 'wow' factor that will enable any limited edition to create FOMO among the congregation and persuade speculative re-sellers to buy up a few copies each as appears to have been happening with a few recent LE issues. I'm not sure that the design of this LE has achieved that.

>100 cronshaw:

Yes: Bertrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy is another full leather binding that comes to mind, a book of something over 800 pages published in 2004 at £39.95, just a pound more than the same year's Secret Pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina bound in buckram. I can only guess that, either a shortage of goats in Nigeria has caused dramatic inflation in leather prices - the Russell volume alone was fairly popular and must have accounted for the lives of many quadrupeds - or, as you suggest, a decision has been made to restrict full leather bindings to LEs to signal their status as premium products.

>100 cronshaw: You've nailed my thoughts better than I could have expressed. The last three of my LE purchases have been Dune, Dick, and the Three Musketeers mostly due to trying to collect most of the LEs folio has to offer but I've stopped that trend. All three are mediocre in my opinion and none have impressed me, especially at their prices and I plan to sell them. All of the older LEs you've mentioned are masterpieces. If Rob Roy goes on sale for 1/3 or 1/2 off I'll consider but I think folio LE are quite overpriced now for what you get.

>101 terebinth: the cost of the specialist labor of the binder could also be a factor, and maybe the largest factor. My understanding is, especially in the West, the cost of crafting generally exceeds the cost of materials, even in the case of many “luxury” materials.

>103 abysswalker:

Certainly a factor in the cost of the book, but can it really have changed so dramatically since 2004, when a hefty volume bound in full leather by Real Lachenmeier could be issued at £40? The forced change toward shorter print runs - the Four Gospels LE limitation of 3750 copies seems a world away - will have had its impact on prices, but doesn't seem at all to explain the retreat from sometimes using leather as a binding material for standard editions.

>95 vmb443:

Thank you for all your photos etc. Really useful!
I have to say that whilst I appreciate what you are saying, and am delighted that you are happy with your purchase, at knocking on £300 illustrations would have to be a lot better than 'not as bad as some on here feared' with 'a couple of them quite nice' for me to be interested! Whilst L.Bloom's view may well have softened, that's actually confirmed my decision.

>104 terebinth:

Not just a retreat from leather - take a look at the relative illustration density in the Sharpe series.

>104 terebinth: my guess is that both segmentation strategy and binding supply/costs contribute to fewer full leather releases. I only know about the broad trends; maybe some other members have more direct experience with this b2b market.

News From Nowhere was also a non LE full leather binding.

>104 terebinth: Real Lachenmeier has now gone out of business, and the FS has been operating at a loss for many years. Perhaps selling that type of book at that price hasn’t really worked out?

How is the FS not able to turn a profit while charging these kinds of prices for their LEs? Unless their financials are inaccurate, somehow they're not making bank on these books.

Has someone asked the FS : If this is a part of a series ? If it was, it naturally would bring people down from the fence, and completists would regret buying.

>102 Joshbooks1: `Dune, Dick and the three Musketeers` ? No comment to what sprung to life in my head.

-

.. what I can say about the illustrations is that I kind of like the use of strong pastel colours, and colourwise they likely would grow on me, which is better than some difuse overused faded black and white illustrations .. sometimes it can be good to see something new (if it fits) - the illustrations also kind of mind me of the little I have seen about `Outlander` the series. A cool idea, but ends up as a sort of chick flick. But, as said, the bright pastel is kind of nice ! Brightens things up !

Reading the book, and dropping in on these illustrations, my eyes would probably find it sort of pleasing to see some colours between the pages.

I have been playing around with the numbers that Folio's shopping basket considers acceptable and calculate, very roughly, that Rob Roy has sold about 115 copies in its first few days.

The next most recent LE was the selected Thomas Hardy, which I calculate to have sold about 50 copies per week since its release. That suggests Rob Roy isn't a failure, despite the lack of love in this particular parish.

What does a typical Folio LE, whatever that may be, sell per week/month anyway?

>110 Cat_of_Ulthar: I think that if this LE had been published by Folio anytime before Covid, it would have been a much slower seller. There seems to be a large number of people who recently discovered the Society and are gobbling up as many books as they can, scared to regret having passed up any titles only to find themselves paying a premium on the secondary market.

Also, I didn’t realize until your comment that Folio didn’t limit sales of Rob Roy to x number per customer, as has been the case with most other LE releases. Either they knew this one wouldn’t be a slam dunk or they don’t care anymore and just want to sell as many copies as they can as quickly as possible.

>110 Cat_of_Ulthar: When it comes to speed of sales I’m not totally sure you can compare a novel that has some additional public recognition due to a Hollywood film with a book of Victorian/Edwardian poetry by an (arguably) out of fashion writer better known for his novels. I realise Scott isn’t exactly a hot property either, but I buy lots of poetry & the Hardy is a tough sell even to me!

>101 terebinth:

Democracy in America as well, I think. Although, touching my copy just now, it's certainly an odd feeling leather if so. Plastic-like.

>111 ChampagneSVP:

'I think that if this LE had been published by Folio anytime before Covid, it would have been a much slower seller.'

You might well be right although that's obviously speculative and we'll probably never know for sure.

'Either they knew this one wouldn’t be a slam dunk or they don’t care anymore and just want to sell as many copies as they can as quickly as possible.'

The x10 limitation does not appear to apply to Madame Bovary or the Hardy poems so, by your logic, I guess Folio don't have much faith in them either.

>112 antinous_in_london:

I agree that Rob Roy and the Hardy might not be the most obvious competitors but at the time of posting I was stymied by lack of information on other titles and the fact that most of the LEs still have the 'max 10' limit for orders.

Madame Bovary is probably not a direct competitor either but it has been available for over a year now and there are still over 230 copies left.

There are obviously multiple factors which will play into how quickly LEs sell and, having done a little trawling through past threads this morning, I was reminded that some of the LEs which do get raved about here took years to sell out: The Faerie Queen took about eight years; Liber Bestiarum hung around for over ten years; and Moby Dick took about six years (although in that case there was a surprise find of some copies in a warehouse which must have extended the timeframe somewhat artificially).

I draw no general conclusions regardng quality of books and speed of LE sales; my point is merely that, love it or not, and for whatever reasons, Rob Roy appears to be selling quite respectably so far.

I received the brochure yesterday, here in US. Like many on the thread, I took an instant dislike to the illustrations. As several have pointed out, the characters don't look particularly individual. The leather binding also didn't look much like leather (but I suppose I could get over that).
Looking through the brochure and reading more about Scott's book, I then decided to see if the LEC had done it (they had not) or if there was a previous SE from Folio.
As noted several times here, there is and quite handsome too with illustrations that appeal more to me. My lament is that this thread will increase the interest in the SE and make it more difficult to acquire. So far all the sellers are in UK.

>114 Cat_of_Ulthar: Agreed , I might be mistaken but I believe that the LE’s you mention that took 8-10 years to sell were from when Folio was a very different set up & more of a ‘members book club’ rather than selling to anyone who happened to stumble onto the website, so took a very different commercial approach to what they published & their willingness to have stock sitting around for decades. In recent years LE’s like the folios have also attracted more attention from the collectors & resale market which they didn’t back then which has increased the speed of sales from speculators (and the curious who may have a fear of missing out by not buying, but who know that if they don’t like a book they can assuredly move it on without any financial loss and even potential profit in the resale arena). I think the only certainty currently is that if your LE is a science fiction/fantasy work then it’ll be gone in a few weeks - or even days like the recent Dune LE)

>115 laotzu225: I think the audience for Scott is definitely more traditional & less likely to go for a modern or cutting-edge treatment when it comes to illustrations or binding effects (I can’t imagine anyone wanting a Rob Roy in a neon binding like the recent Dick set) - I suppose it’s an editorial decision as to whether you pander to your perceived customer base for a particular title or try to do something a bit edgier which they seem to have done here. As you say, it certainly seems to have upped the interest in the original edition which many will find more appealing than the current LE.

>101 terebinth: Seems not all "Western Philosophy" printings where bound in leather - I own the 7th printing (2016) and is bound in buckram.

>116 antinous_in_london:

You're quite right that the three LEs I specifically mentioned were all released under the old membership model although The Faerie Queen and Liber Bestiarum both hung on well after dismemberment, finally selling out over two years later. I'm not sure how or if the change in business model and customer-base altered the rate of sales of those two titles. Liber had a fairly high limitation of 1980, of course, but Faerie Queen was only 1000, closer to the typical 750 of recent releases.

I agree with your post in general, and particularly about science fiction/fantasy works being the big sellers although there are always oddities to buck the trend: one surprise hit (to me, at least) of the post-dismemberment era was Micrographia, which sold out in 8 months, rather more quickly than the roughly contemporaneous Call of Cthulhu, which only goes to show that, as somebody once said: making predictions is very difficult, especially about the future :-)

PS: Micrographia and Cthulhu are perhaps better described as on the cusp of dsimemberment because I would guess that they must have been in preparation before the actual change.

>118 bacchus.:

Yes, switching away from leather in later editions has been quite a pattern with Folio, mostly in quarter-bound books. I didn't buy the Russell at the time but a couple of subsequent encounters with his work have influenced me to do so now and it's on its way. Binding material wasn't specified - I don't know whether a gilt top edge spells leather - but it was listed as in fine condition and priced £20 below any other available copies, which was enough for me to place my order and take my chances as to how it's bound.

>120 terebinth: I placed an order as well, Paul. It really is quite a delight and a good production. I wish Folio would make such volumes more. Does anyone know what the publication price was for Russell?

>121 ironjaw:

I'd already looked in the 2004 prospectus available here: £39.95. Seems a very modest price, but I've yet to see its physical quality.

As >101 terebinth: noted - according to the 2004 prospectus (p17) 40GBP
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ryjm67tiyj4esik/Prospectus%202004%20S%20.pdf?dl=0

>120 terebinth:
>121 ironjaw:

I think you’ll both be pleased. The volume is bound in full goatskin leather by Real-Lachenmaier and blocked with a design by Jeff Clements and to the touch and to the eye and to the nose is identical to the quality of the LE series of Don Quixote/War & Peace/Ulysses/Les Mis etc, though slipcased instead of solander-boxed. I think I’ve mentioned before on this forum that it is perpetually underpriced (in my opinion) on the secondary market and well worth acquiring.

For posterity, mine is the 4th printing 2006 and is the leather binding so apparently the buckram switch came later.

I also own the Democracy In America (2002) by FS, bound in full sheepskin leather. £39.95 list price in the catalogue of 2004.

>117 antinous_in_london: Completely agree. They have misread the nature of the likely consumer in this LE.

>120 terebinth:
>121 ironjaw:

>124 ChampagneSVP: is quite right. It is directly comparable to those erstwhile LEs in binding and leather quality. The leather is tactile and richly grained. The paper, 'Gorgeous Wove', is a rich cream and the book comes complete with a gilt top edge. It only lacks illustrations, apart from a brilliant photo of the author as frontispiece.

>113 adriano77: mentions De Tocqueville's Democracy in America. This is the same size as the Russell and is also bound in full leather but, as adriano77 says, that leather is much inferior and feels cheap by comparison.

(I'm referring above to History of Western Philosophy, 2004 (first printing), and Democracy in America, 2002 (second printing, 2004).)

As >100 cronshaw: says, Lives of the Later Caesars (2005) is also bound by Real Lachenmaier, in leather of a similar quality and grain to the Bertrand Russell volume. The top edge of the text block is a brilliant silver. News from Nowhere (2015) as an object is of a higher order than Russell, even if, again, its binding utilises leather of a like quality from Lachenmaier. It was not limited, although it was marketed, I think, as a 'fine edition' at £100 and would easily pass the test for a LE published today. All edges are gilt and it's printed in two colours on laid paper. I've just noticed that the blue endpapers are also laid paper with its tell-tale 'lines' running through.

I'm very thankful for this discussion. All the information about standard/fine edition full leather books is brilliant for people like me who came to FS later on. It's great to be able to have a taste of the higher quality binding materials at a reasonable price. I ordered a copy of 'The Lives of the Later Caesars' this morning. If there are any other full leather gems like this that spring to mind, it's much appreciated.

>128 GardenOfForkingPaths: Epics of the Middle ages is another quarter-bound leather one that always looked pretty good to me, and is still very affordable.

And for sure, this is a bit of a trove of useful bits, but it's too bad it's under the Rob Roy LE topic.

I got my SE Rob Roy for around £15, my full Nigerian goatskin History of WP for around £30 and the 1/4 bound leather companion History of WM for £20.

The more I look at the books on my shelves and their production and price points, the more I see the LE Rob Roy as an imposter.

>128 GardenOfForkingPaths: "If there are any other full leather gems like this that spring to mind, it's much appreciated."

The only other full leather SE that I can think of is Democracy in America (2002) but I don't own a copy of this so I'm afraid I can't tell you anything about it.

>130 LesMiserables: I admit I'm curious as to the LE Rob Roy price of £295 in comparison to the LE Dracula at £235. They're both leather bound, yet the LE Dracula has far more artwork (15 full colour plates vs. 10, plus borders and numerous tail pieces). I wonder if FS noted the speed at which Dracula sold out and reckoned they could up the price for future leathery LEs fairly easily.

It seems to me that price has less to do with the actual cost of materials and design than it used to, and more to do with targeting an optimal degree of FOMO (too little and the LE languishes in the warehouse, too much and you could have set a higher price); the new 'standard' LE limitation of 750 seems geared to this. In most cases the new LE strategy must be a big win for Folio's cash flow and indeed for those with deeper pockets who are able to buy early knowing they'll likely be able to recoup their cost at a later date on the secondary market should they ever need to. Whether or not that will hold true for the peculiar Mr. Roy remains to be seen.

Yes, it's hard to fathom all of this out, and be clear about the reasons for such a bonkers publication.

But why oh why did this car crash have to be the elusive and long awaited WS we have been looking forward to for years, and on the 250th anniversary too?

For Scott fans, they could not have stuffed this up more if they tried.

>128 GardenOfForkingPaths: "Medieval Civilization" is another quarter leather beauty I rarely see mentioned.
https://stellabooks.com/books/jacques-le-goff/medieval-civilisation-400-1500/211...

>133 LesMiserables:
Sadly, all too right.

>134 bacchus.:
Agreed, it's one of my favourites.

>129 _WishIReadMore:
>131 Hrodberht:
>134 bacchus.:

Thank you! The wishlist grows ever longer.

My apologies to those interested in the Rob Roy LE for veering off topic!

What has been said so far in this thread, for the most part I believe there is concordance with a view that the Folio Society got this edition particularly wrong, in a number of ways.

How can they right the wrong?

Well an anniversary lasts a year. Why not commission something far more traditional and Scott like?

How about a magnificently illustrated edition of The Antiquary or Heart of Midlothian?

Both masterpieces and yet to see the Folio treatment.

I’ve just been to the exhibition in Glasgow of the original artwork. Although it’s not to my taste for this particular book, seeing all the pieces in full scale was very interesting.

For anyone who feels the Folio Society price is beyond their budget, you can buy 10 cards of the artwork for £25, and for anyone who felt the LE cost was a drop in the ocean you can buy an original artwork for £5000-£6500.

>117 antinous_in_london: I have since found a fine copy of the SE Rob Roy with wonderful hand-made marbling on the boards by Ann Muir--$30. plus shipping from a US seller. And it is a rousing read.

>139 laotzu225: Happy to hear you’re enjoying it !

I literally made a new account just so I can respond to this thread, after reading all of the comments. I've been lurking on here for years, and I've been buying FS LE's since the 2002 Kelmscott Chaucer and currently own a bakers dozen of various "classics" .. love them all. Some are now worth 3 or 4 fold what I paid for them.

I picked up this Rob Roy a week after release.. I find it absolutely beatiful and unique, well made and fitting the price of $475 US .. The art work is in a water color style that has a saturated indego theme that is unique and special... the characters expressions are intentionally generic which works for the style of the art... the style is ironic to the book's theme and of who Rob Roy was as a fictional portrayal.. all this adds up to a truly unique and fascinating concept. I can't help but feel that the major critics of this art work are probably not different to those who were critical of Van Gogh's work, describing it as simple, and uninspiring ... missing the bigger picture, the use of color! Miss June Carey's art work, I would argue is grossly misunderstood by some in here.

Anyway, I can honestly say, my single and only complaint about this book is that the art work wasn't hand tipped in... that is a shame.

>142 podaniel:

My first LE was the Kelmscott Chaucer, too. I also have the Rob Roy and am happy with it (I acquired it in the half-off sale). A further big plus is that it is one of the few modern LEs that's full goat skin leather--like the Chaucer.