Labfs39 resumes reading and reviewing in 2021, Part 2

Currently reading:



The woman who smashed codes : a true story of love, spies, and the unlikely heroine who outwitted America's enemies by Jason Fagone

Books read in 2021:

May/June
17. The Hottest Dishes of the Tartar Cuisine by Alina Bronsky, translated from the German by Tim Mohr (TF, 3.5*)
18. Parable of the Sower by Octavia E. Butler (F, 4*)
19. Pachinko by Min Jin Lee (F, 4*)
20. Parable of the Talents by Octavia Butler (F, 4*)
21. The Best We Could Do: An Illustrated Memoir by Thi Bui (NF, 3.5*)
22. To the Bright Edge of the World by Eowyn Ivey (F, 4*)

July/August
23. Pnin by Vladimir Nabokov (F, 4*)
24. Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel (F, 4.5*)
25. My Friend Bill: the life of a restless Yankee, William W. Streeter by Paul Schratter (NF, 4*)
26. Bring Up the Bodies by Hilary Mantel (F, 5*)

September/October
27. The Mirror & the Light by Hilary Mantel (F, 3*)
28. An Untouched House by Willem Frederik Hermans, translated from the Dutch by David Colmer (TF, 3.5*)
29. Last Train to Paris by Michele Zackheim (F, 3.5*)
30. Say You're One of Them by Uwem Akpan (F, 4*)

Books read in 2021:

January/February
1. Children in the Holocaust and World War II: Their Secret Diaries by Laurel Holliday (NF, 4*)
2. Baba Dunja's Last Love by Alina Bronsky, translated from the German by Tim Mohr (TF, 4*)
3. The World's Strongest Librarian: A Memoir of Tourette's, Faith, Strength, and the Power of Family by Josh Hanagarne (NF, 4*)
4. The Age of Orphans by Laleh Khadivi (F, 3*)
5. The True Deceiver by Tove Jansson, translated from the Swedish by Thomas Teal (TF, 4*)
6. Rena's Promise: A Story of Sisters in Auschwitz by Rena Kronreich Gelissen with Heather Dune Macadam (NF, 4*)

March/April
7. Autumn by Ali Smith (F, 3.5*)
8. The Woman in the Dunes by Kōbō Abe, translated from the Japanese by E. Dale Saunders (TF, 3.5*)
9. In Search of My Homeland: A Memoir of a Chinese Labor Camp by Er Tai Gao, translated from the Chinese by Robert Dorsett and David Pollard (TNF, 3*)
10. A High Wind in Jamaica by Richard Hughes (F, 3*)
11. Winter by Ali Smith (F, 2*)
12. The Girl with Seven Names by Hyeonseo Lee with David John (NF, 3*)
13. Moon of the Crusted Snow by Waubgeshig Rice (F, 3.5*)
14. The Nakano Thrift Shop by Hiromi Kawakami, translated from the Japanese by Allison Markin Powell (TF, 4*)
15. Dora Bruder by Patrick Modiano, translated from the French by Joanna Kilmartin (TF, 3*)
16. The Note through the Wire by Doug Gold (NF, 3.5*)

Reading Globally:

Books I've read in 2021 by nationality of author:

American: 7
Canadian/Wasauksing First Nation: 1
Chinese: 1
Dutch: 1
English: 4
French: 1
German: 2
Iranian: 1
Japanese: 2
Korean: 1
Korean American: 1
New Zealand: 1
Nigerian: 1
Polish: 1
Russian: 1
Scottish: 2
Swedish: 1
Vietnamese American: 1

List of books I've read by Nobel Prize Winners can be found here.

Book stats for this year:

I've never kept running stats before, but I saw it on other threads and thought I would try. If it becomes too labor-intensive, I will wait until the end of the year as usual. I realize that gender and ethnicity are difficult categories, but I want to prioritize diversity in my reading.

30 books total

17 countries
8 (27%) translations

22 (73%) fiction
8 (27%) nonfiction

19 (63%) by women
11 (37%) by men

11 (37%) nonwhite

Welcome back to my thread for 2021. I thought May 1 would be a good transition time, but then I caught a cold and haven't been on LT. But I'm back.

I finished reading Hottest Dishes of the Tartar Cuisine last night. Whereas Alina Bronsky's Baba Dunja is a fun go-to book for me, this one was a tough read. The protagonist is one of the most distasteful characters I've encountered. She is self-absorped and delusional about her own importance. She has perfected emotional abuse to an art form. I'll definitely need a palate cleanser after this.

To start things off, I thought I would share a curriculum analysis with you. This is Florida Virtual School's English curriculum for grades 10-12.

Sophomore year: Non-honors students were required to read zero female authors. An excerpt of a speech by Obama was the only required reading not by a dead white guy. In the second module, honors students choose between three books by men and two by women (although one of the two was about a boy's experience). Then honors students chose between Rebecca and Jane Eyre (two white women) and in the final module read a lais by a twelfth-century woman. Evidently honors students can be exposed to women authors. Obama and Zora Neale Hurston (if you chose her book) were the only non-white authors listed.

Junior year: In a slight improvement, students were required to read one female author, Maja Angelou, who was also the only non-white author required. It was a single poem. Students who chose a woman every time they could would end the year with five works by women out of around twenty-five. Three non-white authors were possible. In a slight aside, the inclusion of King Kong with its lurid depiction of women as one of the few works for the year was deplorable.

Senior year: The first two modules feature zero women authors. Moreover, the honors selections included Rudyard Kipling, the originator of ″white man′s burden,″ and ″Song to the Men of England.″ Where are the women? Well, in module three, students are introduced to the idea of women authors. I say idea, because only about one-third of the works are actually written by women. The Obamas and Gandhi are the only named non-white authors, and Gandhi was optional, only for honors students.

As if these numbers were not shocking enough, if you look at the amount of class time spent on women or non-white (or living, for that matter) authors, even the over-represented Shakespeare would roll over in his grave. An entire year reading no works by women? Or a single poem in two years? In three years of English class, students were required to read only five works by non-whites: excerpts from three speeches by the Obamas, a poem, and a newspaper article.

Both my daughter and I have made our voices heard, and we were told that Florida has revised its standards and changes will now be made to the curriculum.

>8 labfs39: That's maddening and unacceptable. Thank you for making your voice heard.

>9 RidgewayGirl: Although the principal wrote a very nicely worded response, I found some of her logic deficient. For example, she said, "Traditionally, high school English courses focus on British literature and early American literature; unfortunately, there isn’t much representation in those literary periods." (One assumes she also means early British literature.) First, the argument that there wasn't much to choose from doesn't hold water. For instance, although fewer women authors were published in late 1700's/early 1800's America, they certainly exist. And women's letters and diaries of those time periods are rich and accessible. Second, it's simply untrue that the curriculum focused on such early American literature (although it did not cover current literature, why is a separate question). One assignment required students to choose two poems from seven: one by T.S. Eliot, two by Robert Frost, one by Ezra Pound, one by William Carlos Williams, and two by Carl Sandburg. Really? They couldn't think of a more diverse group of poets contemporary to these?

Happy Saturday, Lisa! Happy New Thread! It is so nice to have you posting again and I hope those books are treating you fine.

>10 labfs39: Aw jeez that's just lazy on her end. I'm glad you and your daughter spoke up, but it doesn't sound like much change is on the horizon. Anyway, happy new thread!

Very impressed with your organization and stats of your reading. I seem to have thrown all that to the wind these days.

>10 labfs39: Frost, Sandburg, Shakespeare...yeah, not much change there. Kipling?! ...

Seems I did a similar thing when my oldest was in an AP English class in the very late 90s. Not only did the five books assigned not have any major characters who were women; the books assigned either represented women badly (or not at all) or they were treated badly (Catch-22, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Ernest Hebert's The Dogs of March... are three of the five that I can remember). I was so mad, and after explaining to her why I was so, I sent her with an extra copy I had of the Handmaid's Tale and a copy of the Cliff Notes for her to give the teacher. Nothing changed, of course, as the curriculum was fixed. All this reminds me of the conversation Michael and I were having recently about Harold Bloom and "The Canon"....

>11 msf59: Hi Mark, I have been lurking on your thread and enjoying the tales of birding and of the Pacific Northwest. Your photos reminded me of some of the great things about living there.

>12 lisapeet: I expect change will come very slowly to the Florida curriculum, but I did think it important to speak up and model that for my daughter. It's always fun to start a new thread, isn't it?

>13 avaland: Thanks, Lois. We'll see how long the record keeping lasts.

Lol, I love that you gave the teacher a copy of The Handmaid's Tale. It's sad that the curriculum for an AP class was so skewed. It's even sadder that little has changed in the intervening thirty years.

After reading Hottest Dishes, I felt in the need of a strong female protagonist whom I could actually like. I settled on The Parable of the Sower. Wow. I'm sixty pages in and loving it. I had read Octavia Butler's Kindred a long time ago, and really liked it, but in the intervening years had forgotten just how powerful a writer she is.

Stopping by to say hello after an embarrassingly long catch up. Enjoyed your reviews and all the discussions here. Glad you’re enjoying Butler. I’ve only read Kindred (which I liked, but apparently not as much as most people who talk about it.) Hoping to stay caught up...really.

Hmm-yes, as a retired teacher, I sometimes wondered about curriculum writing. Now I did -for Visual Art Grades 9 and 10 and reviewed Grade 11 and 12 for the province. Some of the Grade 11 stuff was terrible- I had to criticize " nicely " in order to have the writers revise the work. Early curriculum writing was really bad for Grade 13 ( abandoned a number of years ago by the province) A number of art teachers sat through a presentation by the writer- after hearing how she changed the work that she herself had written ( totally unsuitable), most of us did the same.

>16 dchaikin: No worries, Dan. I'm glad you stopped by, but no pressure.

>17 torontoc: Curriculum writing must be difficult as it would be hard to please everyone. I think the FLVS curriculum reflects the sort of patriotic education that Trump espoused with his 1776 commission. Speeches by the founding fathers were sprinkled liberally amongst writing by the other white men of the literary canon. It's unfortunate, because in other ways, I thought FLVS provided a solid online education. The state of New Hampshire, for one, licenses their curriculum and platform for their online public school option. I'm glad to hear that change is in the works, but I fear it will be a long time before it's applied to the high school curriculum.

The Hottest Dishes of the Tartar Cuisine by Alina Bronsky, translated from the German by Tim Mohr
Published 2010, 262 p.

Rosa knows everything. She knows that her daughter is stupid and ugly and only has a husband thanks to her. She knows that her granddaughter is smart and pretty, thanks to her care. And she knows that without her, her family would be nothing. It′s hard being the only intelligent, beautiful person around, but Rosa bears the burden.

One day her daughter, Sulfia, tells her that she dreamt about a man and is now pregnant. Rosa believes her immediately, for what man would be attracted to her ugly, dim-witted daughter? But for as much as she derides her daughter, Rosa loves her granddaughter and takes over raising her. Aminat is not as easily cowed as her mother, however, and the three are entwined in a destructive, subversive embrace.

Rosa is one of the most detestable characters I′ve encountered in literature. She is self-aggrandizing, delusional, and cruel. She has perfected the use of emotional abuse to inflict pain while professing love. Yet despite this, the book is funny at times, and I found myself admiring Rosa′s spirit, almost, even as I deplored her actions. Like Baba Dunja′s Last Love, Bronsky′s writing is crisp and acerbic with a strong female protagonist. But whereas Baba Dunja′s love for her granddaughter is self-effacing and supportive, Rosa′s is greedy and domineering. Baba Dunja sacrifices herself for others; Rosa sacrifices others for herself. I don't know how to rate Hottest Dishes, because it is well-written, but repelling.

Well, I’m entertained by review, especially the last line. (And I’m still caught up!)

>19 labfs39: I read the book and think that your assessment is right on the mark!

>20 dchaikin: and >21 torontoc: After I wrote my review, I read ones by Brenzi and TadAD and felt they did a better job of explaining that although Rosa is despicable, there is something fascinating about her too. I got sucked into her mindset, and from that vantage point, her actions made sense. I think it takes a talented writer to pull off the plot of Hottest Dishes with humor. Europa Editions has published a translation of Bronsky's most recent book, My Grandmother's Braid, and I look forward to seeing what type of character this grandmother is.

Parable of the Sower by Octavia E. Butler
Published 1993, 345 p.

Lauren Olamina is a Black teenager growing up in a world gone mad. Global warming has made water and food scarce, street drugs have created roving gangs of killers and arsonists, and a far-right, White president has made debt slavery legal. She lives in a walled neighborhood with her family, but walls and guns can protect them for only so long. Lauren believes things will only get worse, and she prepares herself as best she can for a future outside the walls. She is also filling a notebook with her observations. Gradually she comes to see these as a new religion, one where God is change, a non-anthropomorphic god that can be shaped by human design. Her goal is to escape beyond the city and build a new community, one that believes these precepts and is willing to work in order to shape the future.

When written in 1993, the year 2024 was the future, distant enough to be science fiction. But now, in 2021, too much of Butler′s world seems real. Racial tensions, corrupt cops, dwindling water supplies, and non-living wages are here. As N.K. Jemisin says in the foreword, reading the book in the 90s and reading it now are different experiences.

Unlike her other science fiction series, Parable does not rely on sentient beings from other galaxies or mind powers like telepathy to solve the ills of a dystopian world. Instead, Lauren′s Earthseed relies on the skills and determination of regular people to create change.

Prodigy is, at its essence, adaptability and persistent, positive obsession. Without persistence, what remains is an enthusiasm of the moment. Without adaptability, what remains may be channeled into destructive fanaticism. Without positive obsession, there is nothing at all.

Parable of the Sower is a powerful novel that is hard to put down once begun. The plot is fast-paced, the characters are vivid, and above all it is well-written, clean and concise. The moment I turned the last page, I began to regret not having the sequel, Parable of the Talents on hand to begin immediately. My only quibble is that the character of Lauren is a bit static. She is an exceptional, insightful girl of fifteen when the book opens and an equally exceptional young woman of eighteen when it ends. Few of the struggles of adolescence penetrate her equilibrium. I hesitate to say it, but a little teenage angst wouldn't have gone amiss. Nevertheless, it's worth reading even for those who don't usually read this genre.

Glad you are enjoying Butler. I read all of her work many years ago. She still is a favorite.

>24 avaland: I had only read Kindred previously, which I liked, but remembered thinking Beloved was better.

Now that the weather has done a 180 and it's ridiculously warm (after snow in late April), I am ridiculously busy with gardening. Adding lots of perennials to the rock garden, which requires a lot of shifting of rocks and adding of soil. And the black flies have been horrible!

Finally starting a new book--it's almost been a week!

>26 labfs39: I enjoyed that one, Lisa. I hope you do too. I’m editing to add that I just looked at my comments and I said that the last 20% of the book took something away from it being an excellent book. Although it was on President Obama’s favorite books list, so I felt I was in good company in my enjoyment of it.

>27 NanaCC: Oh no, I hope I don't have the same impression of Pachinko. I'm loving it so far, although I haven't had much time to read.

RIP Eric Carle. I love his illustrations and still read some of his books to my niece. When my daughter was a baby, Carter's had a line of clothes inspired by his art that was very cute. Sad to lose him and Beverly Clearly in quick succession.

>25 labfs39: Well, you know Northern New England, everything seems to involve moving rocks!

>25 labfs39:, >30 avaland: When I was in New Jersey, gardening was alway “rocky”. I used to say that we grew rocks.

>30 avaland: >31 NanaCC: Where do they all come from I wonder? One would think that after clearing an area, it would remain rock-free for a while. But no. I have a book on the history of stonewalls that I should read. Perhaps I would find an answer to this burning question.

>32 labfs39: Many of them come from winter freeze thaw cycles, as long buried rocks emerge over time. As the ground is worked in the spring, they become more obvious. Part of it depends on the movement of underground water. As its paths change direction or size, ground shifts. Just a couple of reasons here, there are others.

One of the things that always intrigues me is when you find a completely different kind of rock, as for example when many are slate, and all of a sudden you find sandstone. I always wonder whether someone brought it there, and if so, for what purpose.

What is your stone wall book?

>33 SassyLassy: Yes, I can see winter freeze-thaw cycles as being a culprit. I'm rediscovering how impactful they are. The roads are a mess despite posting in the spring. I wonder if, as more aquifers dry up, there is a slight decrease in rock "births." My guess is that some of the unexpected rock types are from seams. One of the nice things about rocks in this neck of the woods is mica. I've always been fascinated by it.

The book is Stone by Stone: The Magnificent History in New England's Stone Walls by Robert Thorson.

>34 labfs39: I have that book, too.

>33 SassyLassy: >34 labfs39: glacial till. 🙂 (ok, some people know this, in concept, if not in terminology, and some don’t. For the latter: glaciers ground up everything they ran over “up slope” and mixed it somewhat indiscriminately, and then dumped it as they melted. So New England and Wisconsin and whatnot got dumped with a lot of rock medly mud stew. Today it’s soil constantly birthing seemingly random and unrelated types of rocks.)

>23 labfs39: noting. I liked Kindred, but haven’t seemed to be able to match everyone else’s enthusiasm. So not sure if I’ll read more OB.

ETA .... >34 labfs39: noting that book too...

>36 dchaikin: Ah, yes. Glacial till. Theorhetically it all makes sense. Glaciers, frost, aquifers. But when I run over the umpteenth rock with the lawn mower after spending months picking rocks, it seems as though more sinister forces are at work. You would think the top foot of soil could remain rock free for at least a season. Perhaps it's the fault of trolls like those in Frozen.

>36 dchaikin: If it helps, I liked Beloved more than Kindred as a time travel/slavery novel, and Parable of the Sower more than Kindred as science ficiton. The latter two were very different.

Cindy the Librarian called Friday and said Parable of the Talents is in, and I can pick it up tomorrow.

>37 labfs39: definitely trolls. I don't think they like lawnmowers.

>38 labfs39: I can't compare Kindred with anything Morrison wrote, well maybe because I have put Morrison up there in the with the literary gods (and goddesses). I have a little bias. But I think Morrison pressed harder and deeper, and got her hands dirty by digging well into the uncomfortable territory. Kindred certainly has some complexity and discomfort, but it has a somewhat clean sense of ethics that the reader can nod along with. Morrison confronted and challenged the readers ethics. I mean, I felt bad for Dana, but Seth...phew...I don't have any brief description for all that.

>36 dchaikin: Glacial till as well - absolutely right. There are parts of this province where it is really evident in huge boulder strewn over the landscape like giants suddenly left their bowling game. Also here, depending upon the winter storm surges, now getting stronger each year, there are rocks washing up from the sea. It's amazing to hear them rumbling under the waves along the beach during those storms.

>37 labfs39: I sympathize. I do like to see lovely granite pieces emerge though and then I crowbar them up for use elsewhere. That doesn't happen too often though.

>39 dchaikin: Beloved is an amazing piece of literature and my favorite of her works. Was Morrison one of your themes? Have you read all her books? Which were favorites? I have only read Beloved, The Bluest Eye, and Song of Solomon, which I didn't care for although I read it a long time ago and don't remember why.

>40 SassyLassy: I read about the sound of rocks rumbling below the waves in the book No Great Mischief, which is set on Cape Breton. I would love to hear that. Granite is ubiquitous in this area (as in yours). NH is the granite state and my college's alma mater has the rather cheesy lines:

They have the still North in their hearts,
The hill-winds in their veins,
And the granite of New Hampshire
In their muscles and their brains.

I'm not sure why we want to tout that we have rocks for brains, but there you have it.

Curious school song. Maybe it's a sneaky insult and "they" actually refers to those who went to other schools?

Morrison was an early successful theme read for me and she helped encourage me to stick these themes out. I really enjoyed reading all her novels. And I read her shortly after finishing the OT, which allowed me to pick up on and enjoy many of her bible games - especially in Beloved and SoS. My favorites are the three you read and also Sula. I just found them brilliant angry works by author who harnessed that anger and made some great stuff with it. SoS is my favorite because I found it warped in a fun way. (which shows we are all different readers). I was mixed on her later works, partially because I felt they didn't measure of to those four. (I did like Tar Baby a lot, which is another earlier novel, but not as successful as what I see as her big four.). I'm enjoying Mark's path through Morrison this year.

>42 dchaikin: I read Song of Solomon back in the 90s and unfortunately don't remember details. Without a review of my own to fall back on, I read yours. Ah, Milkman. Yes. Perhaps it was the wrong book at the wrong time, but I'm not eager to give it a reread.

I picked up Parable of the Talents from the library today. I'm eager to get to it, but want to finish Pachinko first. Perhaps this will be the incentive I need to finish it. I am enjoying the story and read a good chunk both times I've sat down with it, but long stretches pass between readings. Not sure why.

>43 labfs39: I wrote that review in 2013... just seems so long ago. Good luck with your reading.

>39 dchaikin: I might agree with your thoughts on Morrison & Butler.

>41 labfs39: LOL. I have always loved the rocks....

Happy Sunday, Lisa. What do you think of Pachinko? I liked it but didn't love it like others did. I also plan on rereading more Morrison. She is an author worth revisiting, her prose is so rich and deep.

>45 avaland: nice map.

>44 dchaikin: Considering I read Song of Solomon in the 90s, 2013 is yesterday :-)

>45 avaland: Ha! You are welcome to as many of my rocks as you can carry off to NH, Lois. I love rocks when they are where they are supposed to be: stone walls, jetties, fireplaces, and the Harvard Museum of Natural History. My lawn is definitely not where they are supposed to be.

>46 msf59: Hi, Mark. I am halfway through Pachinko and enjoying it much more than my reading speed would indicate. My only fear is that the last bit will be disappointing, as Colleen reports.

>47 dchaikin: Yes, the map was a nice change from all the covid-related maps that I've been seeing for the last year.

I have been following your discussion of curriculum, Lisa, and when I taught a class of dystopian fiction recently, we did read Parable of the Sower. One of the students, who loved it, told me she had never read, in school, a book with a black female protagonist. I suspect that is true for most students.

In one of the high schools in our city, a parent complained when her daughter was assigned The Painted Drum, so even teachers with latitude shy away from books that they know will cause parent complaints.

>49 BLBera: How tragic that are children are being exposed to such a narrow band of white (and often male) authors. How can we engage children and inculcate a love of reading, when they never see themselves in the books adults give them? When Trump announced his "patriotic education" commission, I thought to myself, How much whiter, male-dominated, and Founder-centric can it get?

>45 avaland: If the rocks could talk they would argue and point out that they were here long before we were. Rocks in a lawn is an excuse for a garden.

>49 BLBera:, >50 labfs39: I suspect schools are always behind current culture in their reading. My daughter's AP English class in '97-'98 offered no female writers or authors of color among the six books they had to read. Not only that, the novels chosen all presented women as either sexual objects or otherwise in a negative light. As a mother I was fairly pissed off (but I suspect I was an outlier)

>45 avaland: If the rocks could talk they would argue and point out that they were here long before we were. Rocks in a lawn is an excuse for a garden.

>51 avaland: And pick rocks out of the garden? Nah, raised planter beds are the way to go

> And here we are 23 years after your daughter’s AP class and nothing has changed. How far behind the current culture does curriculum have to lag? It’s frustrating

>53 labfs39: That does solve the problem one way!

>54 labfs39: The younger daughter did her senior years in Belgium, and I fairly certain my son did not take AP English, so I have no comparisons.

>55 avaland: High school in Belgium, that's interesting. Which languages were her classes in?

>54 labfs39: I totally agree. I don't have kids in schools, but I certainly hope that literature classes in our high school where upward of 50 languages are spoken are teaching more than white male authors. Fifteen years ago we got lots of requests from students for Things fall apart by Chinua Achebe, but I can't say anything in particular stands out recently.

There are so many good books out there to choose from with female authors, or African-American authors (how can you not teach at least one Toni Morrison book?)

>57 markon: I hate to dwell on the subject of curriculum endlessly, especially as you all are already on that bandwagon, but it seems so obvious wrong and so easy to fix.

Is it a public high school, Ardene? Wow, 50 languages. I realize that in my original diatribe I focused on female and Black authors, that is probably in part because there were no Latinx or Asian American authors at all. In four years.

I wonder how Things Fall Apart became THE book by an African author for students to read? It was assigned to me as a freshman in college in the 80s, and you say roughly 15 years ago (c2006) it was the novel students were requesting. Considering it was written in 1958, that's a long time for one novel to represent all African literature.

And yes, Toni Morrison is a great example of someone who could be included. If only they asked Club Read members to write the curricula!

I have finally finished reading Pachinko. It took me three weeks, and I'm not sure why. I enjoyed it and read sizable chunks when I did sit down with it, but days would pass before I picked it up again. Anywho, I'm done. Now for the review, and then on to Parable of the Talents, before it is due back to the library (it's an ILL and can't be renewed).

Glad you finished.

Pachinko by Min Jin Lee
published 2017, 502 p.

In 1910 the Japanese occupied Korea, beginning a decades-long colonization that only ended at the conclusion of World War II. Throughout this time, as life in Korea became increasingly difficult and food scarcities more widespread, many Koreans emigrated to Japan to seek a better life, but for most Koreans, life in Japan was equally harsh, and the discrimination they faced was daunting. Even second- and third-generation Korean Japanese were denied citizenship and struggled to find acceptance. Pachinko parlors were one of the few places where Koreans could find jobs. Although gambling is illegal in Japan, pachinko parlors were, and remain, big businesses, often associated with the yakuza.

Pachinko begins in the early 1900s and ends in 1989, three generations later. The novel opens in Jeongda, an island off Busan, where Hoonie the fisherman is more concerned about feeding his family than the politics of colonization. His daughter, Sunja, meets a sophisticated Japanese-speaking businessman, and her innocent life is set on a new trajectory. She marries a Christian minister, who takes her to Osaka, where she and her family will live throughout the rest of the occupation period, World War II, and the Korean War. Buffeted by historical events, economic hardships, and discrimination, her children and grandchildren struggle to find success and happiness in a culture that never fully accepts them.

There was much about Pachinko that I loved. The author did years of historical research and interviews with Koreans living in Japan, and her efforts show. The plot touches on many of the events of the time without seeming forced, and the themes of assimilation, what it means to be successful, generational conflict, and being a minority Christian are handled deftly. The characters are well-developed and vivid, and I had no trouble keeping track of who was who, unlike in some family sagas. The tone was of quiet strength, exemplified by the women who held the family together. Some readers felt the last third of the book, dealing with the third generation of characters, was less interesting or engaging. I felt like it was a natural development, as the old mores gave way to foreign education and modern sensibilities. It may not have been as romantic, but it felt real.

My only quibble is that I found myself putting it down for long periods of time before picking it up again, but I think the fault lies with me not the book. If I had read it at a different time, perhaps I would have remained better engaged.

terrific review. I've been on the fence with this, probably because I sense the time commitment. But this review encourages me.

>62 dchaikin: The plot is very interesting, not only because of the historical setting, but in and of itself. Unfortunately, I was very wary of spoilers and said almost nothing. Rest assured, it is a good one.

>62 dchaikin:, >63 labfs39: I agree with Lisa, Dan. It is a very good book. I’m glad you enjoyed it, Lisa.

I am another Pachinko fan, Lisa. Great comments.

>64 NanaCC: >65 BLBera: I considered trying Free Food for Millionaires, Min Jin Lee's debut novel, but the reviews, mostly by readers who had read Pachinko, were almost all disappointed.

>56 labfs39: She was in Bruges so her classes were Flemish, although she took French also (I remember she was reading Georges Simenon's Maigret in that class). I'm sure there were English classes, too; but I don't think she took them. When she first arrived the other students happily talked to her in English (which they were learning) but after about a month, her newness had worn off and they stopped attempting to talk to her in English. In December she was at a low point, missing home and thinking she could never master the language, but by January it all just clicked and everything was fine after that (this was an exchange program sponsored by Rotary International).

I will be very interested to see what my children read in school when they get older (they are in 5th and 2nd grade currently). They go to a very diverse elementary school (their school of 600 kids in Northern Virginia outside of D.C. has 37 different languages spoken in the homes). This definitely waters down as they go to junior high and high school, but Fairfax County pushes a pretty diverse curriculum, at least in the media. I'll be interested to see what it is in reality!

I also really loved Pachinko!

I did also like Free Food for Millionaires. It was very different from Pachinko.

>67 avaland: That sounds like a fabulous learning experience for your daughter, Lois. I would love to hear more about it at our impending meetup ;-)

>68 japaul22: My daughter attended a progressive school in Seattle for Preschool-8th grade, and the curriculum was fantastic. I would have thought that Florida's curriculum standards would have been more diverse given the diversity of the state. My daughter was in the state's online school (FLVS), which serves not only Florida students. The state of NH, for instance, licenses FLVS for their public school students who attend online. So it's reach is quite broad. Unfortunately, they are hampered by Florida state's standards as FLVS is a public school, albeit online.

>69 BLBera: Did you write a review of Free Food for Millionaires, Beth? I would like to read it, if you did.

Wow. I finished reading Parable of the Talents tonight and am still half in that world. I will write a review soon, but wanted to pop in quickly to say that if you feel that The Handmaid's Tale was prescient about issues in today's society, you should read the Parable books.

Next up:



The Best We Could Do: An Illustrated Memoir by Thi Bui

Parable of the Talents by Olivia E. Butler
Published 1998, 423 p.

Parable of the Talents picks up where Parable of the Sowers ends. Lauren Oya Olamina has created her first Earthseed community and is continuing to take in those in need. She is considering next steps in spreading her Earthseed vision when Texas Senator Andrew Steele Jarret is elected president. He is the head of the Christian America movement and his ultraconservative platform of ″Make America Great Again″ resonated with the evangelical right. Once in office, his supporters receive tacit support for vigilante violence. Immigrants, non-Christians, the poor, and women are all targeted by Jarret Crusaders wearing uniforms reminiscent of the Ku Klux Klan. Labeled a heathen cult, Lauren′s Earthseed community is in the cross-hairs.

In Parable of the Sowers Olivia Butler created a world that seemed a mere step away from our own: corrupt cops, climate change, walled communities for those who could afford it, homelessness and violence for those who couldn't. In Parable of the Talents, that world felt even closer. Despite having been published in 1998, the election of an ultraconservative president who promised security and stability at the cost of individual rights was scarily prescient. That Jarret uses the slogan ″Make America Great Again″ made it impossible for me to think of the fictitious president without thinking of the all too real one. Certainly readers in 2021 will have a completely different reading experience than those who read it in 1998.

In Talents, one of the themes that is explored in more detail is how a single charismatic leader can ignite a religious movement. Lauren Olamina starts writing down "truths" as a teenager and in Sowers gathers enough followers to start a community. In Talents she has to abandon her plan of creating a network of communities and envision a new way of spreading the Earthseed doctrine. I found the initial descriptions of God is Change to be compelling, but felt by the end of Talents that Butler was struggling to write the religious "excerpts."

A major change between the two books is the shift from a single first person narrative to multiple. Talents is narrated by Lauren's daughter, but the majority of the book is told in Lauren's voice through journal entries, a technique familiar to readers from Sowers. Excerpts from writings by Lauren's daughter's father and uncle are also included when needed to provide additional perspective. It sounds confusing, but it works well and flows smoothly.

Once again, Butler impresses with her crisp writing, well-developed characters, and matter-of-fact tone. Originally intended to be one book, the Parable books are best read back to back. At the time of her death, the author intended to write a third and final installation in the series, but the two books stand on their own. I didn't feel as though the reader was left hanging. I would highly recommend the Parable books for anyone who enjoyed The Handmaid′s Tale. Note that both works, but especially the Parable books should have trigger warnings for rape, child abduction, and violence.

Happy Saturday, Lisa. I hope you enjoy The Best We Could Do: An Illustrated Memoir as much as I did.

>74 msf59: Thanks, Mark. I'm almost half way through The Best We Could Do and enjoying it. It reminds me of Maus. Both authors are second generation Americans who are dealing with the weight of their parents' pasts. Whether the Vietnam conflict or Auschwitz, the trauma has a profound impact on the children of survivors.

>73 labfs39: enjoyed your review and fascinated by that slogan in 1998. I'm pondering the titles. I think i can make out how the Parable of a Sower works with that novel, but not sure I understand how the Parable of Talents relates to this second book. Curious. And I liked The Handmaid's Tale a lot... noting.

>74 msf59: interesting comparison.

>76 dchaikin: Evidently "Let's Make America Great Again" was first used by Ronald Reagan in his 1980 presidential campaign. Trump shortened it in 2016. What is old is made new again.

As for Talents, I was a confused too. At first it seemed like For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away would be more apropos. But I read that if the talents God has given humans is defined as the ability to learn and shape the world, then those who make the most use of those gifts will reap more rewards than those that don't. It makes sense since the Earthseed religion is basically that: God is change and those who can learn and shape that change will fare the best in the long run.

>73 labfs39: Great review Lisa. It's been many years since I read these two Butler novels. May add them to the reread list one of these days

>77 labfs39: ah, i see now. Thanks for that explanation.

>78 markon: If you do reread them, I would be curious to hear what you think of them in the post-Trump era. I couldn't escape the parallels.

>79 dchaikin: I hope it made sense, Dan.

The Best We Could Do: An Illustrated Memoir by Thi Bui
published 2017, 329 p.

In 1978 three-year-old Thi Bui and her family fled Vietnam and became one of the hundreds of thousands of ″boat people″ seeking asylum in other countries. Her memoir, in graphic novel form, is both a family history and a glimpse of how becoming a mother influenced her understanding of that history. Her illustrations are stark and entirely in orange and black, well-suited to a war setting.

The book begins factually, with the birth of her son, and ends philosophically with a reflection on what she has learned as both a daughter and a mother. In between are the stories she learned from each of her parents about their childhoods, as well as their life together as they try to build a family amongst the war and its aftermath. The things they lived through are horrible, as are the life-long effects of the trauma. That trauma is shared by the children of the survivors both directly and indirectly.

The first graphic novel in which I encountered the multi-generational effects of wartime trauma is Maus by Art Spiegelman. In it he recounts not only the experiences of his parents at Auschwitz, but also the effect that weighty history had on how he was raised and his uneasy relationship with that history. Similarly Bui wrestles with the stories she has heard from her parents and siblings, and how those stories have influenced her identity.

The structure of the book is confusing in places, as the author moves recursively through time from various perspectives and her extended family moved repeatedly as their political alliances changed and the war surged. But I think it adds to the feeling that this is almost an oral history that Bui has attempted to capture and recount. The book was widely acclaimed when it was published in 2017, and she has since gone on to collaborate with Viet Thanh Nguyen, author of The Sympathizer, on a children′s book.

Next UP:



To the Bright Edge of the World by Eowyn Ivey

Although I had promised myself to start Wolf Hall, and I was tempted by the two other Vietnamese books I have on the TBR (The Mountains Sing and The Sympathizer), I felt the need for a quick easy read, which this promises to be.

Anyone got any recs for books they've read recently and enjoyed? Always looking for good recommendations, fiction or non-fiction. Currently reading the little friend by Donna Tartt:)

>81 labfs39: i was wondering about your connection with Maus mentioned above. Maus is special. Noting. (I haven’t picked up a graphic novel in a long time)

>83 ohmyrugman: welcome to LT. You might be better off posting this question in a thread more suited to it.

>81 labfs39: I felt similarly that this one reminded me a lot about Maus while I was reading it. It was structured differently but to me it fits with the overall confusion of the Vietnam War, with the all the swifting alliances and never really knowing what comes next. One of the reads from last year that has certainly stuck.

>83 ohmyrugman: Welcome. You might pose your question to the group Book Recommendations Requests. You might also find the thread of someone whose reading tastes match yours and browse their reviews. Good luck finding the right book

>84 dchaikin: Ah, Maus and I had a torrid love affair when I was in grad school. ;-) It was my first graphic novel, and it was love at first sight. I was studying at the Russian and East European Institute and guess who came to speak? Art Speigelman himself. I have a signed copy with a cute little Maus dedicated to me. Any who, I've read a fair number of memoirs since then, and I agree, Maus is special.

>85 stretch: Interesting that you were reminded of Maus as well. The Best We Could Do had a lot of different strands; I would start following one, and the perspective would change or the time period. I found myself flipping back and forth some in order to keep people and the timeline straight. There's a lot there.

>86 labfs39: I might be a little jealous

Hi, Lisa. I remember really enjoying To the Bright Edge of the World. I hope you like it too. Good review of The Best We Could Do and I like the comparison to Maus. The Complete Maus is easily one of my very favorite GNs.

I'm sure I wrote something about Free Food for Millionaires. I'll look for my comments.

>87 dchaikin: Ha. I sent you a photo of the inscription ;-)

>88 msf59: I'm only about 45 pages into Bright Edge of the World, Mark, but am caught up in it already. I like how Ivey incorporates all the faux documents: Allen's and Sophie's diaries, letters, and even photographs. Very fun.

Have you read Metamaus? It's dense, but very interesting. I've only skimmed it, and this conversation makes me want to revisit it. Unfortunately my copy is buried somewhere in the boxes of history and biography books still awaiting bookshelves in the new house. My contractor went AWOL a couple of months ago, and I have yet to find another.

>89 BLBera: I would be interested in reading your review, if you find it, Beth.

>90 labfs39: got your evil wonderful picture.

also, for what it's worth, my old review of Metamaus: https://www.librarything.com/topic/185746#5000787

>91 dchaikin: Glowing review. I'll reread Maus and then tackle MetaMaus, once I find them amongst the boxes.

I see you have an autographed copy as well, and yet you let me gush about mine. You should have stopped me mid-gush. For this fan, listening to Spiegelman speak about his work was wonderful though, and I was (am) still excited about my very own little Maus.

>92 labfs39: oh yeah…our copy is signed. The autograph is to my wife. (She introduced me to Maus.) I’ve never seen Speigleman in person. So I’m still jealous. : )

To the Bright Edge of the World incorporates many First Nations myths. I'm familiar with Raven/Old Man/Trickster, but I don't know and can't find stories about a baby being born from a spruce tree. Does anyone know where that comes from? Maybe it's strictly an invention, but it doesn't feel like it.

>73 labfs39: Enjoyed your review of the Butler, it was nice to revisit the story. It's been centuries..er...decades since I read her stuff.

>94 labfs39: The story of the spruce baby comes from the story " Xay Tnaey" in Our Voices: Native Stories of Alaska and the Yukon. I found the answer in the acknowledgements.

>95 avaland: Lol. It's taken me decades to read the Parable books, but fortunately they have stood the test of time well.

>96 labfs39: Our Voices sounds interesting!!

>97 dchaikin: It's available on Project Muse, if you have access. I was able to read excerpts without an account.

i'm not familiar with Project Muse.

Project Muse hosts digital content, much of it open access.

Project MUSE offers open access (OA) books, journals, and digital humanities works from several distinguished university presses, scholarly societies, and independent not-for-profit academic publishers. Through our open access hosting programs, we are able to offer publishers a platform for their OA content which ensures visibility, discoverability, and wide dissemination. These materials are freely available to libraries and users around the world.

Thanks Lisa. Cool.

I had not heard of Metamaus, Lisa. Wow. Interesting. I am currently enjoying Festival Days. Have you read Beard?

>102 msf59: I have not, but I've been hearing lots about her lately on LT.

Next Up:



Pnin by Vladimir Nabokov

I picked this up after reading Dan's review and am loving it. Very funny and poignant, not things I thought about Nabokov after reading Lolita.

>104 labfs39: Ha! I picked up a copy for the same reason. Glad that you are enjoying it as well. I have a 4 day weekend starting tomorrow so I will bump this to the top of the pile.

>105 Yells: Hi, thanks for stopping by my thread, Danielle and/or Rob. Do you have a thread? I looked in Club Read and couldn't find one. We share a lot of books. :-) Yes, I'm enjoying Pnin enough that when I saw Pale Fire at the library book sale today, I snapped it up.

Ok. So I purchased nine lovely books from the library book sale today. Yay! But when I tried to post a picture here, it came out sideways. Boo! Is there a secret I'm missing?

Sans picture, I'll have to make do with a list:

Pale Fire by Nabokov (not only was I influenced by my enjoyment of Pnin, but it is the same cover series as Pnin and The Defense)
The Patron Saint of Liars by Ann Patchett (because I love Bel Canto)
Say You're One of Them by Uwem Akpan (because the spine was arresting enough for me to pick up the book, and it looks interesting)
A Mercy by Toni Morrison (need I say more)
The Underground Railroad by Colson Whitehead (because I think I am the only person in Club Read who has not read it)
The Testaments by Margaret Atwood (although I have only read "meh" reviews, I couldn't help myself)
Akin and The Pull of the Stars by Emma Donoghue (Room was such a difficult story for me, that I haven't read any of her other books, but here were two that sounded interesting: one with a WWII tie, so, of course, and one published last year set during a pandemic)
The Secret Chord by Geraldine Brooks (I have read five books by Brooks and enjoyed them all, although it is People of the Book that blew me away)

All for $5! I love library book sales :-)

>106 labfs39: It’s Danielle :) I used to post here but fell off the radar for a few years when my reading declined. These days I maintain a thread in the 1001 group and lurk everywhere else. I probably should start a thread as I seem to have found my reading groove again. Maybe I’ll make that my long weekend project.

I loved the Donoghue book - all her stuff is so different and this one is nothing like Room. Good haul btw!

>107 labfs39: wow. I want to read Patron Saint of Liars. And, of course, I opened Pale Fire this morning. I've read the forward... but now I'm mildly overwhelmed in deciding how to read the rest.

>104 labfs39: 💙 So happy you're enjoying Pnin.

>105 Yells: Hi Danielle. More Pnin! I'm really happy to see people here reading and enjoying poor Pnin. Glad your still around LT. My myopic LT experience doesn't get very far from CR these days.

>107 labfs39: Quite a haul! Which one will you read first, and why?

>108 Yells: Hi Danielle, I too used to be an LT/CR regular but fell off for a couple of years and have only come back this year as my reading picked up again. I'm trying to remember if we used to follow each other back then, but it's been a while. In any case, it's nice to have you stop by. I do hope you start a thread. I have marked your current 1001 thread (what a commitment!) but haven't caught up yet. I would love to talk to you about why you decided to read all 1001 and which version you are following. Earlier this year I did an online quiz to see how many I had read and was surprised at the selections. Maybe you discussed this in your first 1001 thread. I can try to find it.

Which Donoghue book were you referring to, Akin or Pull of the Stars? I found both at the book sale. You say you've read several of hers, do you have a favorite(s)?

>109 dchaikin: So, Pale Fire. I'm curious as to what you mean about how to read it, Dan. I avoid forewords like the plague, as they are always so full of spoilers. I'll wait to hear your thoughts on it before I take a go.

It was so hot the last few days that I haven't read much, but I am still enjoying Pnin. I feel like I've read the first half at least twice already, because I keep rereading passages that I especially like. I have so many post-its sticking out of it that it's starting to resemble a hedgehog. For instance, take this little snippet:

Marriage hardly changed their manner of life except that she moved into Pnin's dingy apartment. He went on with his Slavic studies, she with her psychodramatics and her lyrical ovipositing, laying all over the place like an Easter rabbit, and in those green and mauve poems—about the child she wanted to bear, and the lovers she wanted to have, and St. Petersburg (courtesy of Anna Akhmatov)—every intonation, every image, every simile had been used before by other rhyming rabbits.

Oh, and check out that second sentence, Dan. It's not even one of his longer ones.

>110 markon: Hi Ardene! Nice to see you. Hmm, I'm such a serendipitous reader that I never know what I'm going to read next until I actually crack the book open. That said, I am leaning toward The Pull of the Stars. I'm curious to see what a book written during the pandemic, about a pandemic is like.

By the way, how do you pronounce Nabokov? I found this post amusing:

As to pronunciation, Frenchmen of course say Nabokoff, with the accent on the last syllable. Englishmen say Nabokov, accent on the first, and Italians say Nabokov, accent in the middle, as Russians also do. Na-bo-kov. A heavy open “o” as in “Knickerbocker”. My New England ear is not offended by the long elegant middle “o” of Nabokov as delivered in American academies. The awful “Na-bah-kov” is a despicable gutterism.

To the Bright Edge of the World by Eowyn Ivey
Published in 2016, 413 pages

In an expedition loosely based on one undertaken by Lieutenant Henry T. Allen in 1885, the fictitious Lieutenant Colonel Allen Forrester and two subordinates intend to travel up the Wolverine River to find a Northwest passage in Alaska. The river route has been attempted before, but failed due to either impassable terrain or hostile natives. As if these challenges were not enough, Forrester is confronted with fantastical events his logical mind refuses to accept, and Lieutenant Pruitt is haunted by his role in the Elk Creek massacre. Meanwhile, back at the Vancouver Barracks in Washington Territory, Allen's wife Sophie is dealing with challenges of her own.

Their stories are told through their diaries, a few letters between them, and some official correspondence regarding the expedition. This epistolary style works well, allowing both Allen and Sophie to relate their experiences in the first person. This timeline is encapsulated by correspondence between Walter, an elderly descendant of Sophie's, and Josh, a young Alaskan museum curator to whom Walter wants to entrust the diaries. Although it may sound complicated, it reads smoothly and the layers of narratives allows for interpretation and perspective. For example, Josh and Walter are able to discuss the differences between Allen's diaries and his official reports, the impact the expedition had on the native peoples, and cultural loss.

Allen's story is one of adventure interspersed with Athabaskan myths. Although I was familiar with some of the stories, such as those of Old Man Raven, others were new, and I went online to learn more about the Fog Woman and The Spruce Tree Man. Sophie's story was no less compelling, and she may have been the more developed character, with a better-developed back story and more introspective writing. She is a naturalist and photographer in an age where both are seen as male occupations, and her intelligence and desire for self-determination make her interactions with the other officers′ wives and the post doctor complicated.

I loved Eowyn Ivey′s first novel, The Snow Child, and was not disappointed with her second, although Snow Child is still my favorite. I was immediately drawn into this story, but felt things bog down a bit, before I was swept back into it. I think Ivey′s strengths are her characters and her ability to integrate myth and fairy tales into her plots. Her deft handling of the epistolary style in this book reminds me of Daniel Stein, Interpreter: A Novel in Documents by Ludmila Ulitskaya. After only two novels, Ivey feels like not only an accomplished writer, but also one with a distinctive style, and I look forward to her next work.

>113 labfs39: Great review. I definitely enjoyed The Snow Child more, but this was also a good read.

>113 labfs39: Nice review. I've got both of hers on my shelves, and looks like either would be a good pick (though I'll probably go with The Snow Child first.

>114 AlisonY: Thanks, Alison. I hope Ivey comes out with another book soon.

Pnin by Vladimir Nabokov
Published in 1953, 191 pages

Having only read Lolita, my perspective on Nabokov was narrow. I thought of him as a difficult author to read, with dark humor (if any). Then I read Pnin, and my impression did a 180.

Everyone at the small college where Timofey Pnin teaches thinks he is a ridiculous figure with his humorous language faux pas and bumbling ways. In the era of McCarthy, teaching Russian is as low on the academic spectrum as it is possible to go, and neither his colleagues or his few students respect him. Pnin stumbles through life with bemused good humor, and it is only when he is with his fellow Russian emigre compatriots that we see the well-spoken, confident intellectual that lies below the surface.

Pnin is a story of estrangement and belonging, assimilation and cultural difference, good-humored self-deprecation and simmering anger. It′s also a story within a story. There is an unnamed narrator telling Pnin′s story, and at the end of the novel, the motives of this narrator are called into question, and the reader is left wondering if this really is Pnin′s story after all.

Metafiction creates a tension between the protagonist and the writer. In most novels, there is a lulling sense that the protagonists true self is being revealed, but in metafiction this is disrupted. We are constantly being reminded that we are reading fiction, fiction created by a biased author, even when the author is claiming to be reciting the facts.

Some people—and I am one of them—hate happy ends. We fell cheated. Harm is the norm. Doom should not jam. The avalanche stopping in its tracks a few feet above the cowering village behaves not only unnaturally but unethically. Had I been reading about this mild old man, instead of writing about him, I would have preferred him to discover, upon his arrival in Cremona, that his lecture was not this Friday but the next. Actually, however, he not only arrived safely but was in time for dinner—a fruit cocktail, to begin with, mint jelly with the anonymous meat course, chocolate syrup with the vanilla ice cream.

By professing to tell the truth, rather than his own inclinations, and following that with an account of a mundane act too detailed not to be true, the reliability of the narrator is made more questionable, not less. The writer doth protest too much, methinks. But Nabokov handles this tension playfully and hides how much of himself is reflected. Certainly he, like both the narrator and Pnin, was a Russian emigre educated in Paris and a professor at small colleges in the United States. Is one aspect of Nabokov′s ego poking fun at another aspect?

On the surface, however, Pnin is a delightful romp with delicious descriptions and laugh-out-loud humor.

...Judith Clyde, an ageless blond in aqua rayon, with large, flat cheeks stained a beautiful candy pink and two bright eyes basking in blue lunacy behind a rimless pince-nez, presented the speaker…

Marriage hardly changed their manner of life except that she moved into Pnin's dingy apartment. He went on with his Slavic studies, she with her psychodramatics and her lyrical ovipositing, laying all over the place like an Easter rabbit, and in those green and mauve poems—about the child she wanted to bear, and the lovers she wanted to have, and St. Petersburg (courtesy of Anna Akhmatov)—every intonation, every image, every simile had been used before by other rhyming rabbits.

Blue lunacy and rhyming rabbits, I love it.

This is a fun thread. A small list of stuff to comment on..

>111 labfs39: The "introduction" in Pale Fire is part of the novel. (Like in Lolita where the we learn the end only in the introduction). Basically he tells you what he has presented (in his warped way). It's... well, if you get there you will see.

>113 labfs39: enjoyed this review

>117 labfs39: but, really, yay Pnin! Great review. The book is wonderfully quotable although the only one I wrote down was on a Pnin's pencil sharpener when he briefly has his office to himself. I had to share with Kevin here (see his thread). But I certainly remember his marriage and his psychodramatic wife, and her theft of poor imitated Anna Akhmatova's style. And I really do remember the idea of that unethical underachieving avalanche. I enjoyed your analysis of the metafiction within.

>112 labfs39: Is that Nabokov being quoted? It he the "My New England ear"? Sound familiar to me anyway. I'm grateful I don't need to pronounce his (or Pnin's) name out loud.

>107 labfs39: Nice book haul.

>113 labfs39: I loved The Snow Child as well and am glad to hear that her second novel is also good.

>117 labfs39: Great comments on Pnin.

>117 labfs39: Well you've sold me on Pnin. Sounds like a must read.

>118 dchaikin: Sometimes when I'm thinking about Nabokov, my mind jumps to James Joyce. Something about intensity or, as Updike says about Nabokov, writing ecstatically. I'm starting to lump Pale Fire in with Ulysses, and I haven't even read PF yet. I find polyglots intimidating too. Nabokov included bits of Russian, German, and French in Pnin, and I forget how many languages are included in Ulysses. 10? 12?

I did see your quote about pencil sharpeners on Kevin's thread. I love how Pnin "Pninized" his environments.

As for the quote about pronouncing Nabokov, the link I provided says it's "From an interview Nabokov gave Robert Hughes for Public Television in October, 1965." I assumed it was Nabokov speaking, but I didn't check the actual interview.

>119 BLBera: Thanks, Beth. Wasn't The Snow Child something special? I think I reread it shortly after finishing; the only other book I remember rereading as soon as I finished was In the Shadow of the Banyan. Interestingly, they were debut novels for both authors, and both have only written a single novel since.

>120 AlisonY: I was pleasantly surprised by Pnin, and it's less than 200 pages, so not a huge investment if you don't like it. It's on the 1001 list, if that is something you refer to for suggestions.

Next Up:



Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel

Fabulous review of Pnin, Lisa! I'll look for my copy this week or next and add it to my summer reading list.

>123 labfs39: yay! Another lured into our evil group read trap. : )
( >124 kidzdoc:, also Yay!)

>124 kidzdoc: Hi Darryl, it's nice to see you on the threads. I hope you enjoy Pnin as much as I (and Dan) did. I was particularly impressed by Nabokov's precise use of language. I get the feeling that every word is carefully chosen. It's not lyrical, but vivid and clear. Sometimes I felt like the author/narrator was letting the reader in on a witty inside joke. So many things to talk about in such a short book.

>125 dchaikin: Yes, yes, I succumbed and am reading Wolf Hall. :-) I was busy with family events today, so I didn't get to read. I hope to make some progress tonight. I was a bit disappointed that there is a 27 year gap between chapters 1 and 2. I would have liked to have known how Cromwell went from vagabond tough boy to educated lawyer working for a cardinal. Maybe a prequel? My daughter has promised to find some history documentaries for me to help fill in my sketchy knowledge of Tudor history.

Just stopping by to see what you are reading. I enjoyed revisiting Pnin through your review. I can't comment intelligently on Nabokov at this point, my obsession with dead Russian authors is long behind me. However, the legacy of that earlier obsession manifests nowadays as: if I see some interesting fiction by a living Russian author, I might pick it up...i.e. Ludmilla Petrushevskaya, Viktor Pelevin, Sergei Lukyanenko...or other authors who may not be Russian but set their work in, or are somehow connected, to Russia i.e. Finnish author Rosa Liksom's Compartment No 6, Gillian Slovo's The Ice Road or Elisabeth Elo's two books....

>107 labfs39: This is an excellent book haul, Lisa. Many fine titles. I still want to read The Pull of the Stars. I am surprised I haven't yet.

Good review of Pnin. I remember loving that one too. Is this your first time reading Wolf Hall? If so, enjoy! It is a fantastic novel.

>127 avaland: Hi Lois! I hope you are still afloat after all this rain.

I too used to be a Slavophile, especially during and after grad school. Although I stopped reading the tomes of the Russian giants, rebeccanyc used to inspire me to pick up new-to-me Russian/East European authors (Anton Szerb, Vladimir Sorokin, Vasily Grossman, Dubravka Ugrešić, to name just a few). Although I still read a lot of WWII-related books, these days I find myself gravitating more toward Asia. So many wonderful authors writing all over the world, if only I had more time to read!

>128 msf59: Thanks, Mark. It is my first time reading Wolf Hall. I put it off for a long time fearing that it would be too dry, especially since I know nothing of the Tudors. I'm so glad I finally committed to reading it. I'm over halfway through and am trying to shoehorn in reading time whenever I can. Saturday, while waiting for my nephew in a parking lot, I was stretching my legs and reading while walking. I haven't done that in a while! Fortunately it was not a busy lot, and I didn't get run over. ;-)

I stopped by the library book sale again today and was happy to find a few more books, despite the selection being picked over at this point.

The Good Earth by Pearl Buck (to replace my copy which was rather tattered)
A Hero of France by Alan Furst (the most recent in the Night Soldiers WWII espionage series)
Juliette Gordon Low by Stacy Cordery (because once a Girl Scout...)
My Friend Bill: The Life of a Restless Yankee by Paul Schratter (small press memoir of a Mainer)
and a board book for my niece, Hands are not for hitting.

>130 labfs39: Always nice to pick up some new books....

A drive and all day event to consider someday:

https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/new-hampshire/two-story-bookstore-in-nh-is-like-...

A nice day trip about two hours from you. The town, a small college town, is scenic with a variety of small restaurants. There were three other used bookshops in the vicinity but I don't know if they are still running.

>131 avaland: Wow, that looks amazing, Lois. Is it near you? Maybe we could do a meet up...

It's about an hour's drive north, 35 miles (we just went there today (!), came home with at least six books. Had a nice lunch at the pancake house and I stopped in at my favorite quilt shop and did some damage there). If you decide to go there, we would certainly arrange to meet you there. The old guy who runs no#6 told me the other bookshop in town is defunct as its owner passed away last year.

Will let you know about any plans I have to come up your way, I have several visits to the area to schedule.

Wow, I've driven through Henniker a couple of times, and had no idea. I'm sure it will take me a lot longer next time.

>134 SassyLassy: So when are we going? :-)

Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel
Published 2009, 532 p.

I finished Wolf Hall! Woohoo! I must admit, it was very good and not at all dry or overly difficult. Granted, I would have gotten more out of it if I were more conversant with English history, but I didn't have to Google incessantly in order to follow along. The list of characters and lineage chart at the beginning were very helpful. I had never been interested in Tudor history, but Mantel's depiction kept me fascinated and interested in learning more. I've started watching some mini-documentaries to flesh out some topics/people. I will definitely read the next volume, Bringing Up the Bodies, which I already own.

A few other jumbled thoughts:
-Why is the book called Wolf Hall, when the Seymours are only peripheral in this volume?
-I like how she made Thomas More not entirely evil. Given the things he did, that would be easy to do, but at the end, I felt conflicted, much as Cromwell seemed to feel. I was glad he wasn't eviscerated.
-I was sorry that Anne Cromwell died. I would have liked to see what she became.
-Two of the topics I want to learn more about are the sack of Rome in 1527 and the Münster rebellion.

I'm not going to write a review for this one as there are already 595 reviews in LT.

>136 labfs39: I find Tudor England to be one of the least interesting bits of history and I loved Wolf Hall. As for the title, it becomes clearer as the trilogy progresses.

>136 labfs39: One of the things I love about historical fiction, Lisa, is all of the rabbit holes it sends me down looking up the factual information. And I agree with Kay, the Tudor period is extremely interesting.

>136 labfs39: With everyone liking {Wolf Hall, I really should give it a try. It's just never sure I want to sink so much into a political drama, even if it is the Tudors.

I love your thoughts on Wolf Hall, Lisa. I am so glad you liked it. I think Bringing Up the Bodies will be an easier read for you. If you can find the the mini-series of this one, do so. It is excellent!!

>137 RidgewayGirl: I have the same feelings about the Tudors. Or at least I did. Even though I know what's coming (the big picture), I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the trilogy.

As for Wolf Hall, I know it's the home of the Seymours (and of course, Jane), but in this book it doesn't figure largely, as it will later on.

Hmm. What would I have named this one? The Ice Queen Cometh? Wolsey's Protégé? Who's Sleeping with Henry Tonight?

>138 NanaCC: I too love rabbit holes, Colleen, at least when they are entered voluntarily. If I had had to look up every name/place/event, I wouldn't have enjoyed the book.

>139 stretch: I understand completely, Kevin. My thoughts exactly... until I started reading. Mantel had me at the first chapter.

>140 msf59: Mini-series? Ah, PBS is broadcasting the BBC mini-series. I must watch! Thanks for enlightening me, Mark.

Just had myself a long catch-up here. Really enjoying the conversations and your reviews, Lisa.

Just a note on >107 labfs39:. Say You're One of Them is a great short-story collection in my opinion, one of my all-time favorites, in fact, but not to be read if you're looking for something light. The title story in particular is quite disturbing.

>143 rocketjk: Thanks for the head's up about Say You're One of Them, Jerry. I look forward to reading it, but have a few things in the queue ahead of it.

Next Up:



My Friend Bill by Paul Schratter

>145 labfs39: Now where did you pick that book up? (as you are the only Lter with a copy...) Will look forward to your thoughts on it.

Glad you enjoyed Wolf Hall. I tried it several years ago as an audiobook on a road trip, and it put me to sleep. I may someday try it again as a book, but not in the near future.

>143 rocketjk: I agree with Jerry that the stories in Say you're one of them are excellent, and I figure as someone who regularly reads about the Holocaust & World War II you've got the stomach for it.

>146 avaland: I sat down with My Friend Bill tonight and had a lovely half hour or so. I'll write my review shortly.

>147 markon: I think Wolf Hall would have been a difficult audiobook for me. First, I needed to flip back to the list of characters and lineage chart frequently, and second, I stopped and googled things occasionally, usually to satisfy curiosity as to the historical accuracy of an event or person. Anticipating a difficult read, I was very pleasantly surprised to get swept up in it.

My interest in Say You're One of Them is definitely piqued now. It's odd. As you say, I read a lot about the Holocaust, war, genocide and my stomach is okay. Ask me to read true crime or books like Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, and my wame curdles.

My friend Bill: the life of a restless Yankee, William W. Streeter by Paul Schratter
Published 2015, 59 p.

I picked up this little gem of a book at my local library book sale. Being a Yankee myself, I was intrigued by the title, the cover image, and the quality of the design. It's an homage to an interesting character by his equally interesting friend, who was ninety-three when he wrote the book.

Bill Streeter grew up on a "dirt farm" in Cummington, Massachusetts. His childhood was typical New England: canning, maple syrup sugar shack, self-sufficiency, and a stern father. Despite his intelligence and intellectual curiosity, he had trouble in school because he was dyslexic and dropped out when he was fifteen. He joined the army and was stationed in Nuremburg during the Nazi trials, although he was a cook and didn't interact directly with the proceedings.

Because of his varied interests, Bill had a variety of jobs over the years. He had a country store, was an aide for veterans with PTSD, and owned a luggage and leather repair shop. It was this last enterprise that led him to his true passion: bookbinding. He became an expert and restored many valuable original editions and documents, took on apprentices, and co-authored a book called Before Photocopying. He was invited to speak at Harvard on the latter. Bill was also very involved in local affairs and, among other things, was instrumental in founding the Kingman Tavern Museum of History and wrote several books about local history.

The author, Paul Schratter, is interesting in his own right. He was born in Vienna and escaped to America alone at the age of sixteen. His father and other members of the family died in the Holocaust. He served in the army in the tail-end of WWII then studied at the Maryland Institute of Art, Johns Hopkins, and Suffolk University.

My Friend Bill was published by Levellers Press and is a delight to hold. It has high-quality paper, French flaps, and interesting sketches and photos. For such a small book, I received quite a bit of pleasure reading it.

You can learn more by watching "Bill Streeter: Scholar, Historian, Bookbinder" on YouTube.

Next Up:



Bring Up the Bodies by Hilary Mantel

>148 labfs39: "my wame curdles" - what a great expression! Will be interested to hear your take on the stories when you pick them up

>149 labfs39: Interesting. Sounds like a book my father would love to read (except he died in '84). How lovely his friend kept his memory alive.

>151 markon: Don't the Scots have the most wonderful words?

>152 avaland: Actually, the author passed shortly after finishing the book, and Bill lived another two years. But yes, the book is a nice testament to a life well-lived.

I'm fifty pages into Bring Up the Bodies and loving it, so far perhaps even more than Wolf Hall. When I started reading, I felt like Mantel's writing was even better, smoother, more accomplished, if such a thing is possible. Another difference I'm noticing is that Crummy seems a little less amiable than he was in the last book. It seems like some of the less pleasant aspects of his character are given more weight.

>139 stretch: Kevin, I felt exactly the same for the reasons you stated, and it was only the group read that nudged me to give it a go. I absolutely loved the whole trilogy - I would heartily recommend it.

Happy Friday, Lisa. I hope you love Bring Up the Bodies, as much as I did. How are those feeders coming along?

>155 AlisonY: I'm almost embarrassed that I avoided the Wolf Hall trilogy for so long. I am loving it.

>156 msf59: Morning, Mark. I finished Bring Up the Bodies last night and wow! I could barely put it down. Now for Diary of a Young Naturalist, one of your recommendations.

Bring Up the Bodies by Hilary Mantel

Once again I am only going to summarize my thoughts and not write a review. There are already so many in LT, and I don't feel as though I could add much for other readers.

But, wow, did I enjoy this one, more than Wolf Hall, although that was excellent as well.

-Writing: From the first page, I felt that Mantel's writing was even better than in WH. Very clean and powerful. One problem encountered with using "he" in a self-referential way is that she sometimes has to say "he, Cromwell" for clarity, but she avoids it in most cases so it's not too obtrusive.

-Historical accuracy: Even though it was not written from Anne's pov, I was mesmerized by Mantel's version of her downfall. In the afterword, Mantel admits that there is a lot of controversary around her death with little in the way of concrete historical evidence. Historical fiction at its finest.

-Cromwell: His personality in this book becomes more complicated resulting in a less likable character. By the end of the book, I was shocked at how conniving he was beneath a seemingly kind exterior. Certainly his family and staff have reason to think well of him, but his enemies are skewered by his prodigious memory and willingness to prosecute on the belief that they are guilty of something although perhaps not what they are charged with. Although he does not resort to torture a la More, he doesn't need to. It is a scary thing to witness, when Cromwell seeks revenge.

I also like how Cromwell says that he is only fulfilling the king's desires while thinking to himself that he is the true power and that he is managing Henry. His relationship to the women in the court is interesting as well.

-Henry: Another fascinating character Mantel has brought to life. The tension between his desire to be good and wanting what he wants regardless of the impediments keeps the reader guessing where he is going to come down at any one point.

-I love how well-drawn even the minor characters are. His cook, Helen, ladies in waiting, the gaoler.

As you can see, I have become a true fan and can't wait to start the next and final book in the trilogy. I don't have it yet, so will shoehorn in another book, but am anxious to get back into this story.

And now for something completely different...

Next Up:



Diary of a Young Naturalist by Dara McAnulty

>158 labfs39: Loved reading your thoughts on this. There was plenty of debate on the group read thread about whether Cromwell had moved to the monster end of the scale, or if he was somewhere in the middle in self-preservation mode.

There was general appreciation for how Mantel really leaves that open for the individual reader to come to their own conclusions on.

>160 AlisonY: Thanks for reminding me about the group read thread. I read through it just now and found echoes of many of my own thoughts as well as some new ideas.

As for being a monster, I didn't go there. For me, Thomas More with his delight in torture was a monster. Cromwell didn't use torture, he manipulated. And in that court, who didn't? Cromwell was just very, very good at it. None of the men accused at the end were eviscerated, which they could have been, but beheaded, which while barbaric in modern terms, was considered merciful. None of them had to be carried to trial in a chair. And there was a trial. Not an unbiased or morally stain-free one, but given the state of our current judicial system, I can't cast stones almost 500 years later. So while I think Cromwell was manipulative and unflinching in inflicting harm, I don't think he was a monster. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to cross him though.

Mantel hasn't explored Cromwell's thoughts on religion very much, other than that he had friends among the reformers and promoted the Church of England when needed to further Henry's aims. But he also had friends in the Catholic Church. From Mantel's depiction, I get the sense of a highly intelligent, fiercely loyal, but not especially spiritual man. His moral compass seems to stem from intellectual reasoning and practical logic. His dismantling of the monasteries, etc seems to stem from economic motives, not malice or righteous indignation. As a result of reading these books, I am curious to learn more about the reformation in England.

There was general appreciation for how Mantel really leaves that open for the individual reader to come to their own conclusions on.

I think that is one of the strengths of her historical fiction. She presents facts and conjectures, but hasn't moralized. She seems to believe, as I do, that historical fiction has an obligation to the truth, but a nuanced understanding of the vagaries of truth. As a reader I get caught up in "believing" her version of the events and characters, but she has no pretentions that she is not writing fiction. I like that.

>161 labfs39: Mantel hasn't explored Cromwell's thoughts on religion very much
We talked about the religious aspect of Cromwell in the group read after The Mirror and the Light. Mantel remains relatively light on that aspect of his life even in the third book, but although historians can't quite agree on the level of his influence in the Protestant reformation there seems no doubt that his religious beliefs were important to him.

I too didn't see him as a monster; more as someone who was laser focused on his career and on rising to the top, and once he was in Henry's inner circle - which was a dangerous place to be - he had to play by those rules to at the very least stay where he was.

Did he need to send as many as five men to the Tower to get rid of Anne? It's a difficult one, isn't it? Clearly he seemed able to get something to stick to all five, and there's no doubt some gave him much more personal satisfaction than others. Whilst I don't think he was overly vengeful he certainly was opportunistic.

Hi, Lisa. I am so glad that you loved Bring Up the Bodies. I had some issues with the third volume but it is an excellent trilogy. I hope you love Diary of a Young Naturalist as much as I did.

Wow, you’re all-in with Mantel’s Cromwell. Good stuff Lisa. (Be sure to read the comments on thread for The Mirror and the Light if you get there. I’ve come to suspect Mantel had to adjust her Cromwell to the real history in the last book, and it’s an imperfect fit. He was probably the most influential reformer of the English church…in ways counter to Henry’s beliefs. So his faith played an really important role in history, but under the surface. Seems he actively tried to remove his association with his own reforms…which he had to do because of (1) Henry and (2) the rebellion against his reforms that almost got him killed. A lot of that is missing in Mantel’s power-for-power’s-sake version. But Mantel’s version is pretty special.)

(Hope I didn’t go overboard there)

(Sorry if I’m coming out of the blue, i kind a disappeared from CR and some other things for a bit. Actually not sure i’m back. I miss CR a lot but now there is so much to catch up on again! But I should plow through some of it, slowly.)

I like the promise of the title of your current read.

>163 msf59: Hi Mark, sorry but I bailed on Diary of a Young Naturalist in order to read The Mirror & the Light. Diary was impressive, but I'm too distracted by Cromwell to enjoy it. I might try it again later.

Now Reading:



The Mirror & the Light by Hilary Mantel

>162 AlisonY: I'll be sure to read the group thread on M&L once I'm done. I had been planning to read along with the tutored read that Smiler69 and Chatterbox did on the 75 books thread, but once I began reading, it was full steam ahead. Later I might go back to that as well.

Henry VIII's court was definitely a dangerous place to be. As I was reading, I kept thinking that if I had lived in those times, I would have avoided the court like the sleeping sickness and that eking out an existence on a croft would be much preferable. Better to starve than be beheaded was my thought.

>164 dchaikin: Hmm, it sounds like both you and Mark found problems with the final volume. I hope I enjoy it, I might be too ignorant of the history to see the errors. For now, I'm eager to get started.

I hope the things keeping you away from LT are positive ones. The good thing about CR is that it waits patiently when we need to take time away.

>166 labfs39: yes, CR is patient, except it accumulates. I liked TMatL a lot. My criticisms aren’t on Mantel, just in curiosity about the historical aspects and the challenges Mantel had - like the amount she has to cover.

>167 dchaikin: You went on to read a biography of Cromwell, right? I would like to here more about the historical differences after I'm done.

>168 labfs39: yes. One written by a history of Christianity scholar.

I've been very busy of late and haven't been reading. Whereas Bring Up the Bodies grabbed me from page 1, I'm having a harder time getting into Mirror and the Light. Later this week I'll make a concerted effort to get some momentum going.

Yesterday I went to a little local festival and had a grand time browsing their books for sale. I picked up 12 children's picture books at the stall raising money for the Barbara Bush Children's Hospital, a few hand knit items for my nieces, and three books for me:



The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher: Stories by Hilary Mantel

Bert and I and Other Stories from Down East by Marshall Dodge and Robert Bryan (a Maine classic)

Gone with the Wind by Margaret Mitchell (the 50th anniversary edition). Despite it being dated and the issues related to that, Gone with the Wind has a special place in my memories. I first read my mom's battered copy when I was 12, and it was by far the longest book I had read to that point (over 1000 pages). I went on to read it several more times as a teen. I wonder now what the draw was?

>170 labfs39: I found the title story to be the best in the Mantel collection.

Re Gone with the Wind and rereading it several times, which I also did: do you suppose it was because Scarlett was a strong independent woman, not afraid to defy convention?

Bert and I is a book I don't know, but would probably like as "down East" is up here too.

>170 labfs39: I'm with you on Gone With the Wind. I also read it first as a pre-teen and totally fell in love. I read it several times. I reread it as an adult, knowing all the issues now about how the South is portrayed and how slavery is glorified ("they were happier that way and we treated them well"). I was embarrassed to admit that I still loved reading it. It does have great characters, a dramatic backdrop, fantastic momentum for a long book, and interesting evolving relationships. But knowing how many Americans still buy into this damaging version of history will always color the book for me now.

>170 labfs39: "Bert and I and Other Stories from Down East by Marshall Dodge and Robert Bryan (a Maine classic)"

I was introduced to Bert and I in LP form during college days by a dorm mate who was from Maine. The LP is a recording of Dodge and Bryan telling the stories before a live audience. Somewhere along the line during the many intervening years, I came upon a copy of that LP in some thrift store or antique store or at a garage sale. So now I have a copy. I wouldn't be surprised if you could find those audio tracks online, maybe on youtube.

>170 labfs39: I am starting to get a bit tired of the whole idea of "problems" idea in older books. Yes, older books are dated and portrait different social and moral norms. In other news: water is wet. People seem to be looking for a reason to get offended by anything anywhere these days.

If someone is not willing to read about older periods, especially as they were seen by the authors of the times, they should just keep to newer books. By all means - comment on them and discuss them (even get embarrassed if you want to be) but "this does not match the current moral norms so it needs to be cancelled/never republished" is just a witch hunt. And if things are not talked about/read about, they get forgotten and that opens a dangerous door.

Sorry for the rant...

>174 AnnieMod: I don't think that Gone With the Wind should go out of publication and I don't have a problem with books that are "of an era" - but the caveat is that people should know that and not idolize them. Gone With the Wind, the book and the movie, is used to perpetuate an idea that is still very much revered by current-day Americans that slavery "wasn't all that bad" and it is part of the myth of the good old days of the confederacy that is more than a little troublesome.

If no one believed that anymore, I could just enjoy the book for what it is. What continues to bother me is that many, many people still believe that the Civil War was about "states' rights", not slavery and Gone With the Wind is a part of that current day ideology.

>175 japaul22: I did not mean anyone in this group really - I was mostly grumbling about the world in general :)

Sure - books need to be put into context, a lot of books need that (and if people learn how to write Introductions, that's where that can go - except that most introductions tend to be a "why I like this book" essays). I've read this specific book and the fact that we were getting the viewpoint of the white plantation owners was absolutely clear to me. Maybe the problem is that people just refuse to read critically - or think when reading. Who knows.

People will always believe whatever they want. Removing books/movies as opposed to talking about them will just increase the number of people who do not understand the issue at hand. And while fiction can be used to see what the times were, anyone who believes everything inside of a novel needs to get back to school to learn the difference between fiction and fact. But then this is the main problem in this century, isn't it? :)

Oh well. Sorry for hijacking the thread. And now I want to reread the novel...

>176 AnnieMod: I completely agree!

>171 SassyLassy: Scarlett was a strong independent woman, not afraid to defy convention

This was definitely part of the appeal for me. She is very vividly drawn, and despite her faults, she is gutsy, ambitious, and not afraid to take on a man's world. She has dreams, albeit sometimes misguided ones, but she pursues them wholeheartedly, no holding back. And she's a survivor, resilient and adaptable. She undergoes tremendous growth over the course of the book. An unforgettable character, for sure.

Bert and I is best enjoyed as oral stories, and there is a nice sampling on YouTube. Here's a link to one of the most famous: Which Way to Millinocket?. The book is more of a prompt for me, as I can hear the voices as I read. Do Nova Scotians have much of an accent?

>172 japaul22: I have not reread Gone with the Wind as an adult, and I'm leery of doing so because I would bring a very different mindset to the book. I think I would like to keep the memory of my girlish enthusiasm intact.

>174 AnnieMod: >175 japaul22: >176 AnnieMod: Interesting discussion. I agree that understanding context is important and that part of the problem is the way GwtW is being used to perpetuate a myth. Including introductions might be a good way of providing some of that context, although as Annie says, it has to be more than a promotional essay. Has anyone heard the introduction that MGM added to its streamed version of the movie? I was happy to hear that the studio was trying to find a way to continue to provide access to the movie while at the same time acknowledging the issues.

>173 rocketjk: What a wonderful story, Jerry. I like that your exposure to Maine culture "took." Although I never heard Bert and I performed live, I did hear Tim Sample, who tells stories of similar ilk. He worked with Marshall Dodge a bit before Marshall died and became quite popular, reaching a much larger audience. The Bangor Daily News wrote a three-piece series on Maine humor in storytelling, and I think the second installment, "The record that made Maine humor famous," refers to the record you have.

I was another who read and loved Gone with the Wind as a teen. I think the characters are what drew me, but the scene I still remember is when someone (maybe Scarlet?) is reading the lists of the dead after one of the later battles, and we realize all the men from the first scene of the novel are dead. It seemed one of the most real parts of the novel. I have a battered paperback with teeny print but haven't attempted to reread as an adult. I think, like Lisa, maybe I should just leave it on the shelf.

I haven't tried reading Gone with the Wind since I was a teen either. I was swept away by the romance and atmosphere back then. I've often wondered what I would think now, but learned the hard way that rereading certain beloved books doesn't always work out. I think I am also in the 'leave on the shelf' group.

I've never read it, and I'm guessing my window has passed (especially since it didn't appeal to me as a teen either).

Happy Wednesday, Lisa. Has things improved with Mirror and the Light? I agree that it didn't read as smoothly or grab my attention like the previous two. It almost felt like she was running out of gas on this subject.

>178 labfs39: People in a given location never think they have an accent; it is everyone else who does. There are many local accents in Nova Scotia and in Newfoundland, and it is often easy to tell what part of the province a person is from by listening to their accent, if their family name hasn't given it away already. In the area where I live now, people wouldn't sound out of place along the coast of Massachusetts or a bit north of there - the "Boston States" as they are known here.

Listening to your clip, the "r"s here are less noticeable, even dropped in some cases, so that Yarmouth becomes Yawmuth. The biggest difference though is in the cadence of the speech; it's not nearly so slow here.

Those directions did sound familiar though, especially "You can't get there from here"! Tourists have an odd habit of thinking that because they can see a particular place along the coast, that there is a direct route to it. It's usually not so at all. The one direction that drives newcomers crazy is along the lines of "You go down to where the old Esso station used to be..." Reminds me of one of my trips to the Hero Islands in Vermont when the instruction was to stop at the red barn. Do they know how many red barns there are in Vermont?

Regarding Gone With the Wind, specifically -- a friend visited me in 2019 from Canada and wanted to visit GwtW-related sites and, yeah, the novel is definitely being used to present a white-washed version of history. I do think that we need to read critically and still grapple with old novels, but despite my teenaged self's love for the book, visiting places that leaned hard into the romance and gentility of the life of the slave-owners, while carefully omitting any mention of the majority of the people living in those places left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I'm sure that some former plantations don't hide most of the history, but the ones that associated with that novel certainly do.

GWTW was the first really long book I read too, at about the same age as you. I think many teenage girls like it because Scarlett is such a strong independent woman. In my teenage years, it was almost a rite of passage to read this book. I wonder if that's still the case. (I don't think so). Interestingly neither of my two girls was interested in reading it (nor the boys). Not even sure if they ever even watched the movie. I'll have to ask them.

>180 labfs39: Here's a link to a 5 minute video which features the LP version of the title story of the Bert and I LP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPGf77t9hRA

>185 SassyLassy: You've reminded me of a passage from The Recollections of Ernest Everett "Sharkey" Rawles by Ernest Everett Rawles. This is an oral history of a fellow who was a rancher here in Anderson Valley, the relatively isolated area of Mendocino County in northern California where my wife and I have lived for the past 13 years:

"My dad bought the old Sherman homestead. I don't remember what happened to the bill of sale, but the property description on it ran something like this: 'Starting with a big redwood tree in the gulch 400 feet below my cabin, I run one-half mile south to a point on the top of the ridge near Alec's cabin, from there I run east a half mile across my gulch past the top of the next ridge where Smalley shot the bear, and from there I run back north a quarter of a mile to where Tarwater lost his saddle, and from there back to the point of beginning.'"

My wife and I had a very enjoyable and interesting vacation in Newfoundland several years back. We traveled all about the place. Sadly, I have no memory of the accents.

Hoping you found some flow in The Mirror and the Light. It’s just a long slow book. Enjoyed all the conversation here.

>181 BLBera: >182 Yells: >183 lisapeet: Are there other books that you loved as a child/young adult that you wouldn't reread now for fear of spoiling the memory or that would not hold up under adult/current sensibilities?

>184 msf59: Sadly, I have not picked up Mirror and the Light again, although I intend to. It has been beastly hot and terribly humid, as it has been most places, and I have not wanted to do much of anything that requires more than two brain cells at a time firing.

>185 SassyLassy: People in a given location never think they have an accent; it is everyone else who does

How true! On an earlier thread we had a conversation about words and phrases that are only used in certain parts of the country. Despite it being a global citizenry now, I find it encouraging that local color remains.

I read that the original "You can't get there from here" schtick was from Arkansas Traveller. I guess everyplace likes to make fun of the lost tourist. Ironically, Marshall Dodge, and to a lesser extent his sidekick Robert Bryan, became the face of Maine humor, portraying simple fishermen, yet they are both from New York and went to Yale, which is where they met. They assumed the accent for their work.

>190 labfs39: "Are there other books that you loved as a child/young adult that you wouldn't reread now for fear of spoiling the memory or that would not hold up under adult/current sensibilities?"

Hope it's OK if I jump in with this one. The first author that came to mind for me here is Robert A. Heinlein. I loved his books when I was an early teen. Now, between what I know of his misogyny and the glorification of war in some of his books, I'd be hesitant to open any of them. Stranger in a Strange Land I thought was hokey as soon as I read it. Guess I'd outgrown him already by then.

>186 RidgewayGirl: Interesting, Kay. I had never thought about the plantations becoming tourist meccas, although I guess it's not surprising. I would have a hard time going on a GwtW tour. I must admit that I did go on a Sound of Music tour when my daughter was young.

>187 arubabookwoman: I'm not sure how much of a draw Gone with the Wind has today, Deborah. I never realized that so many of us had read it as (pre-)teens. Of my daughters friends, I know of one girl who read it in middle school. I hope the book fades into the past, and other books take its place. If I were making a reader recommendation, I might suggest Beloved as a replacement or a counterbalance.

At about the same time as I read GwtW, I read Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry. Did any of you read it back when? Although it is not set in the same time period exactly, it certainly gives voice to a different experience. I didn't know this at the time, but the author, Mildred Taylor, was "the great-granddaughter of a former slave who was the son of an African-Indian woman and a white landowner" (according to Wikipedia).

>188 rocketjk: Thank you for providing the link, Jerry. I think that story of the Bluebird fishing boat was the first one that Marshall Dodge performed. On YouTube there is clip of Bob Bryan telling this story in 1993. His normal speaking voice is so... normal. But when he assumes his storytelling accent, it sounds much like the memories of how my grandparents and their friends spoke.

Once the world is safe for travelling again, we should plan a LT meetup trip to Nova Scotia. Wouldn't that be fun? Sigh. Someday.

By the way, are any of you fans of Stuart Mclean and the Vinyl Cafe? He was a wonderful Canadian storyteller who was a fixture of CBC radio for many years. Although I've only heard McLean through YouTube clips, I have read several of his books, which collected together the stories of Dave and Morley. Fun stuff.

>195 labfs39: Huge fan! I have all his audiobooks and saw his Christmas show many times. It was a very sad day in this household when he passed. I was just talking about Christmas at the Turlingtons today as a matter of fact :)

>190 labfs39: Are there other books that you loved as a child/young adult that you wouldn't reread now for fear of spoiling the memory or that would not hold up under adult/current sensibilities?
The Narnia books, I think. Those were so, so magical for me when I was little, and I don't think my adult eyes would do them any favors. Having been raised 100% heathen, the Christian overtones were completely lost on me—and that's the kind of thing that once you know, you can't unknow. I'm happy to let the percolate deep in my consciousness and stay the way they are.

>190 labfs39: Are there other books that you loved as a child/young adult that you wouldn't reread now for fear of spoiling the memory or that would not hold up under adult/current sensibilities?

Interesting discussion around the re-reading of childhood/teen favorites. I never read Gone with the Wind. As a pre-teen I read all my fathers paperback war fiction. The treatment of women was pretty bad in, say, The Dirty Dozen and others (no access to a library in the summer so I read what I could find). I'm not prone to re-reading, have not reread Little Women, for example. However, there are other ways to pay homage to a favorite book and author:-) I am prone to watching TV and movie adaptations and visiting the Alcott house and Sleepy Hollow cemetery. And Michael and I were married at Fruitlands (site of Bronson Alcott and Charles Lane's brief utopian experiment. Alcott dragged the whole family there). Theater/Movies/television can adapt some classic favorites to make it more acceptable within the sensibilities our world today, especially if the theme is a timeless one.

>185 SassyLassy: People in a given location never think they have an accent; it is everyone else who does... I'm a born & bred Mainer and I spent a year in California dispatching for the Milpitas police and the teasing was brutal (so, we don't have a lot of respect for r's at the end of a word...) The locals there claimed they did not have an accent (I was very outnumbered so I didn't argue).

>189 dchaikin: The Mirror and the Light remains gathering dust with the bookmark stuck, but I'm glad you are enjoying the conversation, Dan.

>192 rocketjk: So Heinlein doesn't age well in your opinion, Jerry? I've only read Stranger in a Strange Land and that was in high school when I probably didn't grok the hokeyness you mention. At the time I thought I was very hip for reading it. :-)

>196 Yells: Yay! Another Mclean fan. Have you read any of his books? If so, how do they compare to the audio recordings of his shows? I keep the Vinyl Cafe books on a shelf for feel-good reads when I need a pick me up.

>197 lisapeet: I read some of the Narnia books when I was young, but unlike so many others, I didn't connect with them. As I think back, my impression is that they seemed stiff and formal. I did see one of the movies as an adult, and the Christian themes were quite obvious, something that only brushed my consciousness when I read them.

the kind of thing that once you know, you can't unknow

So true.

Similarly, I can have a hard time watching movie versions of favorite books (which percolates into >198 avaland: Lois's post). Sometimes the mental images I create when reading become so real to me, that seeing a movie version feels just plain wrong. Once I've imagined it, I can't unimagine it. But then other times the movie version clicks with me and becomes an embellishment of the book, not a desecration. Examples of great adaptations in my mind are Pride and Prejudice with Jennifer Ehle and Colin Firth, Megan Follows as Anne of Green Gables, and The Age of Innocence with Daniel Day-Lewis. Ok adaptations are a dime a dozen and bad adaptations don't bear mentioning. Which are your favorite movie adaptations?

>198 avaland: I recently picked up the Great Course entitled Emerson, Thoreau, and the Transcendentalist Movement. I thought it would be interesting to revisit now that I've moved back to New England. Your post about the Alcotts gave me a great idea. I've been wanting to plan a trip to share some New England history with my daughter and going to Concord to see the Orchard House and Walden Pond would be perfect. Woo hoo! Now to wait for a good time to travel...

>199 labfs39: "So Heinlein doesn't age well in your opinion, Jerry?"

Well, I'm not 100% sure, as I haven't reread them. But that's my guess, remembering what I do of the storylines and what I know of Heinlein's philosophies.

"Sometimes the mental images I create when reading become so real to me, that seeing a movie version feels just plain wrong."

Don't know if you're a fan of Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next books, but in one of those, Harry Potter is noted as being extremely irritated at having to go around looking like Daniel Radcliffe all the time because that's how readers expect him to look.

>201 rocketjk: I did read the first couple of Jasper Fforde's books back when they first came out, but didn't keep up with the series. Harry Potter having to look like Daniel Radcliffe is funny. Since I read the books first, my Harry is an amalgamation of the illustrations and Radcliffe, perhaps an indication that if there is an illustration, my mental image is predicated on that.

>202 labfs39: I do sympathize with your original point, though. There have been times I've avoided movies (or wished I had) due to the the actor chosen not coming anywhere close to the picture of the character I already had in mind from my reading.

Can I jump in the movie conversation? I used to be really uptight about movie adaptations and just intuitively felt they absolutely must honor the heart of the book. But…there are so many bad movies out there, maybe I’ve become attuned…anyway, i find myself more forgiving lately.

>203 rocketjk: Have your read What We See When We Read: a phenomenology, with illustrations by Peter Mendelsund? I found it fascinating. Last year he came out with another book about books, The Look of the Book: Jackets, Covers, and Art at the Edges of Literature. It sounds good too, if you like that sort of thing.

>204 dchaikin: Absolutely, Dan. So, what do you look for in a good movie adaptation? For me, I love it when some of the movie's dialogue comes straight from the book, as was the case in the movies I mentioned above. It signals that the screenwriter appreciated the language of the book enough not to mess with it.

When Outlander was first being produced, I followed along and listened to Ron D. Moore's podcasts about how each episode was produced. I found it really interesting. I knew nothing about how shows were run and learned a lot about adapting books into movies. It made me appreciate the process more. One of the big furors with fans that made me laugh was about the discrepancies between how the characters were described in the book and the actors that portrayed them. Sam Heughan wasn't tall enough, his hair wasn't naturally red (fans couldn't agree on the exact shade), and the actor Caitriona Balfe was not only too tall, but had the audacity to be born in Dublin not England. It was amazing how upset (and vocal) some fans were about it.

That’s funny about Outlander. To answer your question…I’m not sure. Decades ago (eek!) i saw a favorite book in movie form - A River Runs Through It - and I thought it was terrific. And yet - the characters ages were changed from mid-30’s to about 18, the narrator meets his future wife who he’s been married to a while in the book. It’s a different thing. But yet it captured a similar under-the-surface sense.

So, details aren’t critical to me, but overall impression is - if I really really like the book. For example, I saw Ready Player One which had practically nothing to do with the book…and didn’t really care. The book was fun and all, but it’s not like I had any deep attachment to it.

So I guess I need two elements. A really special book and a movie that captures it. Which is…well, not particularly enlightening to anyone.

>205 labfs39: No, I haven't read those. Those sorts of books aren't generally my cup of tea (although I'm gradually reading through one now), though I can readily understand how others would find them interesting.

>205 labfs39: Lisa, the website https://tomandlorenzo.com/2016/04/outlander-season-2-episode-1/ did an interesting dive into the costuming of the show that was interesting to me despite my not having watched more than a few episodes.

>205 labfs39: My son gave me a copy of The Look of the Book for my birthday this year, and it's just gorgeous. Word to would-be purchasers—this is NOT a good one to buy as an ebook, as there are textured bits, inserts, etc. and it would be a shame to miss out on them.

>206 dchaikin: Which leads me to ask: what makes a book special in your eyes?

>207 rocketjk: Books about books (meta-books?) is a genre that doesn't have wide appeal judging from the numbers in LT. One of the most interesting that I've read, aside from What We See When We Read, is When Books Went to War. It's about the 123 million books known as Armed Services Editions that were printed and distributed to American military personnel in WWII. I have collected a few. They are around but often not in very good shape as they were paperback, small, and meant to fit in a pocket. Here are a few covers from my set:

>208 RidgewayGirl: Oh, interesting, Kay. I had though about the costumes in Outlander primarily through an historical lens, i.e. how historically accurate are they (answer=very). I had also heard Terry Dresbach, the original designer, speak about making the costumes on Ron's podcast. She got a lot of flack about things like having the cast reappear in the same outfits (people back then didn't have a lot of clothes) and for covering up Caitriona Balfe/Claire's décolletage with fichu and using woolen knits. She was nominated for two Emmy's, I believe.

>209 lisapeet: Thank you, Lisa, for bringing The Look of the Book to my attention via your thread. Definitely sounds like one to own.

>210 labfs39: Re: Armed Services Editions, check out this post from my own CR thread from earlier this year. Great minds, as they say . . .

https://www.librarything.com/topic/328303#7506188

>212 rocketjk: Ha!

I want to add a belated thank you to Lois (avaland) for a lovely meetup last week. It was my first in-person book friend visit since BP (before pandemic). I had so much fun talking about books, life, and bears. I was delighted to take custody of a hefty number of orphaned books as well. ;-) Leave it to Lois to have three times the number of boxes of books as luggage in her trunk!

We are planning another get-together soon to go to the Old Number Six Book Depot in Henniker, NH. Anyone else game? SassyLassy, when are you headed our way next?

>210 labfs39: well, if I could answer that…

>214 labfs39: yay for meet ups. How fun!

>214 labfs39: Now really, to be fair I did my suitcase was at least equal to 2/3rd of the book boxes.

Great conversation about adaptations. I have favorites, of course, but I'll watch any of them at least once. We must always remember that film, television & staged performances are different medium than the novel. There is more showing than telling. Done well, I think an adaptation compliments a book. One must also account for casting (Matthew Macfadyen as Darcy??), the compression or exspansion of the story into a small or large time frame, and the era/decade the adaptations were made in, and perhaps consideration of how visual of a person you are.

We recently watched some DVDs that comprised a collection of older Henry James adaptations. They were decent, bearing in mind the decade they were originally released in (mostly the 70s). Our favorite was "The Spoils of Poynton" from one of his short stories; it was filmed in 1970 and aired in '71 as the very first 'Masterpiece Theatre' offering (but I really wouldn't want a steady diet of 70s adaptations of classics, but hey ho, things did improve: the adaptation of The Jewel in the Crown was in '84 (there were four books)

Then there are the breakaway productions that borrow a character from a book and create original story. Sherlock Holmes being the most used here. My favorite of this genre in the 'classics' category might just be the fairly recent Anne with an "E"

>214 labfs39: Although the percentage of fully vaccinated Canadians is far greater than the percentage of vaccinated Americans, Canadians are not currently allowed into the US for "non essential travel" across land borders due to travel Covid restrictions.

Someday that will change! Vaccinated Americans are allowed into Canada as of August 9th, so maybe it will change sooner rather than later - hoping for before winter.

A friend of mine just went to Maine this weekend, but she is a dual citizen, so she shouldn't have any problems.

>215 dchaikin: It is hard to define what makes a book special, isn't it? I mean, there are lots of great books, but every once in a while, one resonates with me to an exquisite degree. I think it probably has as much to do with me and my receptivity as it does with the intrinsic qualities of the book. I think it has to be the right book at the right time.

>216 avaland: We must always remember that film, television & staged performances are different medium than the novel.

This was the biggest takeaway for me when listening to Ron Moore's podcast. I had never spent much time thinking about how they are different. There are so many moving parts with productions: cast, set design, costuming, special effects, etc. etc. You mention compression or expansion of the story to fit within a set amount of screen time. That reminds me of a funny anecdote Diana Gabaldon related. She was having lunch with George R.R. Martin, author of Game of Thrones, when Outlander was first in production. GoT was in its third season and had been allotted 10 episodes per season. Outlander had 16 episodes in it's first season, and I guess Martin was in a bit of a snit about it. Moore also mentioned that Starz allowed him to run under or over time with each episode as well, which he greatly appreciated. Every minute counts on screen. Authors don't have that constraint (at least to the same degree).

Megan Follows' Anne is so imprinted on my brain that I had a hard time getting into Anne with an E. I only watched part of an episode. I have heard good things about it though and should give it another try (once I'm over my k-drama obsession).

>217 SassyLassy: Sigh. Covid. To be honest, I'm not sure why the US is so het up on keeping Canadians out when you have far less covid than we do. Frankly, I would rather the border patrol spent their time patrolling the Texan and Floridian state lines instead.

EDITED TO CLARIFY the above: I was trying to make a joke that because of poor policy decisions by the governors of Texas and Florida, the residents of those states are much more of a covid-threat than national border crossers. I did not mean that we should increase immigration controls into those states, rather the opposite. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Happy Saturday, Lisa. Just checking in. Did you mention a Meet Up? That is awesome. I hope to get together with another LTer in the coming months. How are those books treating you?

>218 labfs39: yes, exactly. And there is a first exposure to a style/trope/idea etc that doesn’t replicate and so the first one is by chance. But mostly I thought two things. My favorite books grab me in unexpected ways. And there are so many books that seem to check all the boxes yet fell flat for me. So - those two things seemed a quick kill to any clear answer from me.

(Regarding immigration - I think the us attitude with Canadians crossing the border is entirely US-political and otherwise arbitrary. As for tx/fl (nm,az,ca) little compassion from immigration would go a long way.)

>214 labfs39: That does sound like fun. Someday...

I'm so jealous of your meetup with Lois, and visits to bookstores.
The only bookstore I know of here is the Barnes & Nobles, which I don't care for.
Stay safe!

>219 msf59: Hi Mark, yes, Avaland (Lois) and I had a nice meetup last week.

>220 dchaikin: Yikes! I think my comments about border guards came across wrong! I was making a tongue in cheek joke that Texans and Floridians are more of a threat of spreading covid than any national border crossers due to the governors of those two states making poor (in my mind) policy choices. I apologize that my comment was vague, and I'll fix it.

>221 BLBera: Yes, someday...

>222 arubabookwoman: Hi Deborah! I had similar bookstore-withdrawal when I lived on the panhandle for two years. The only bookstore within an hours drive was a Books a Million. I sure do miss Third Place Books!

>223 labfs39: - oh, sorry Lisa. No one thinks you went fox-news-crazy overnight. Certainly not me. You’re comment was fine and intent was clearly fine.

I had months of books and conversation to catch up on here! Sorry to have missed it all as it happened. You've nudged me that bit closer to Wolf Hall, which I've had on my TBR shelf for years and have started once or twice but not got far with. I really want to give it a proper chance.

I enjoyed your review of Pachinko, which I read a couple of years ago. It has stayed with me although I didn't love it. I think what I struggled with was that it sounded (to my British brain) very American, which jarred with the context (American writers don't always sound American to me, they sound neutral) - but that's maybe something that wouldn't bother an American. Anyway, that issue has faded in my mind, and I'm left with a very strong sense of character and place (fairly unusual for me so long after reading something).

>214 labfs39: I wish I could have been there!

Flying by my own thread to post the following exciting news from literary agent, Denise Bukowski:

Based on the success of his bestselling novel about an apocalypse in a northern First Nation, Moon of the Crusted Snow, Anishinaabe writer and CBC broadcaster Waubgeshig Rice has been commissioned by Random House Canada editor Rick Meier to produce an as-yet-unwritten sequel set ten years after the events that forced the residents to retreat into the bush and resume their traditional lifestyle. The novel is expected to be published in 2022. Congratulations, Waub!

>227 labfs39: Sweet! Can't wait for that one :)

Not much reading happening on my end. My daughter and my little niece whom I watch during the week both have pneumonia. Not covid-induced, but still...

>225 dchaikin: Thanks, Dan.

>226 rachbxl: Hi Rachel! I was glad to see you back on the threads. While I can whole-heartedly recommend Wolf Hall and Bring up the Bodies, I am struggling (still) to finish the last volume. I wish I had stopped after BUTB.

I enjoyed Pachinko, but not to the extent where watching the movie version will spoil it for me. Thus, I'm looking forward to the Apple TV production that is currently being filmed. It will be an eight episode series, long enough, I think to do credit to the source material. The cast looks good.

I wish you could have been at the meetup too! Someday...

>228 Yells: Yes, I am curious to see what Rice does with the sequel. I think there is a lot of potential, but it's hard to repeat success such as the first received.

wishing the girls well.

>229 labfs39: Sorry to hear about your daughter and niece. I hope they recover quickly.

Will be waving from Biddeford/Saco tomorrow. Hoping things improve soon.

I hope your daughter and niece get better soon, Lisa.

Yes, hoping your young ones getting to feeling better soon.

Thank you all for your good wishes.

I didn't have my niece today so I sat down with The Mirror & The Light and finished it. What a chore this third volume was, and yet I loved the first two. I felt like even Mantel was bored with her protagonist halfway through this volume, although the last chapters were a bit more engaging as Cromwell reflects on his life. Why did I not like this one? I felt as though her writing, which I thought had gotten even better in BUTB, became lackluster and rote. Whereas even small events and details came to life in her earlier books, here they became a recitation.

The character Cromwell suffered not only from a less engaging author, but a less generous one as well. After cheering for the enterprising boy who escaped a cruel childhood and nodding in understanding as Cromwell tried to walk the knife's edge with Anne Boleyn, I was left with a disillusioned and disillusioning character who, like a sober drunk, was confounding and stank of the recent past. Did Cromwell change after the execution of Anne? If so, it was never elucidated. Did Mantel need to do an about face? If so, it seems like as the author she could have concocted a literary reason for it, even if only the easy out of corruption. In this third volume I felt the collision of history and fiction, rather than its fusion.

Ah well. The Cromwell Trilogy is done. I do not think I'll rush to pick up another Mantel book, which is too bad, because Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies were great. I'm off to peruse my TBR-next piles to find a palate cleanser...

Next Up:



An Untouched House by Willem Frederik Hermans, translated from the Dutch by David Colmer

>236 labfs39: congrats on finishing. I agree TM&L was not as successful as her first two, but I don’t think she was bored. It’s too sophisticated. I think she had a plot-true history conflict that was much harder to resolve than it was in the first two books. Have lots more semi-unworked out thinking, which I might try to put down here.

>236 labfs39: All the questions you still have about Cromwell are things that I enjoyed about this third volume. I like that we don't really know what he turned into. Did he change after the Anne situation, was he simply fighting bare knuckled to stay afloat now that there was no turning back from the circles he was running with, or was he simply a greedy, nasty, unlikeable man?

I think Dan's comments on her increased conflict on representing true history in this third volume are very insightful.

Sorry this one wasn't a hit for you. That's never enjoyable with a chunky book like this one. I felt it meandered a bit in the middle with excess detail for a couple of hundred pages, but overall I still enjoyed it a lot.

>238 dchaikin: Hmm. I should go back and read the Club Read thread devoted to the book, I'm sure there is a lot I'm missing. Off the cuff, the word sophistication didn't spring to mind as I read the book, and I'm too ignorant of the times to appreciate the history conflict you suggest. Strictly as a novel, I felt it left a lot to be desired, especially in comparison to the first two, which I thought were stellar.

>240 labfs39: sophisticated in how she structured and moved it. Cromwell’s run was a series of really complicated interwoven events. Book 1 is his rise and take down on Moore. Book 2 his take down of Anne. Book 3 should be his fall, but there is a lot to cover before it makes sense. He has to rise more and get tangled up. There is a popular rebellion (against him) and a bad marriage. There are evolving relationships. There is just a whole lot of history that plays into his fall. She isn’t telling us a history, she is presenting TCs experience. So she has to cover all this history through his imagined perception of it and still create moods and themes out of his head. And if you read closely she does. The messy history is largely all there, each key event. But the historian’s distanced cleaned-up view is not there. That’s, to me, the successful part of the book, overcoming a plot-defying plot without telling the actual story.

As for her issues with plot - that requires me to hand wave and write a long post. I’ll try later.

An Untouched House by Willem Frederik Hermans, translated from the Dutch by David Colmer
Published 1951, 102 p.

Quite a wallop is packed in this small novella. An unnamed narrator stumbles across an unoccupied house somewhere in the no man's land of WWII and decides to live out the war there. He is a partisan severely traumatized by war and half-convinced that nothing is real and therefore nothing he does matters. The brutality escalates at a breakneck pace.

The afterword by Cees Nooteboom is well-written and introduces the author and his worldview.

The absurdity, cruelty, and pointlessness of war are ratcheted up in his books; it's not just the main characters, readers too are unable to escape the vice-like pressure. Hermans went against the prevailing mood in the postwar Netherlands by precisely and compellingly describing not the heroic aspects of those days, but the folly of it all, the bungling, the pointless fumbling in what he called a sadistic universe, the chaos in which human lives are played out when the semblance of order called civilization has been breached.

I look forward to reading one of his full-length novels. Monica (trifolia) has recommended Hermans' The Darkroom of Damocles.

>242 labfs39: captivating review.

>241 dchaikin: >243 dchaikin: Thanks, Dan. I appreciate your comments on The Mirror & The Light. I know you did your usual thorough scholarly work when reading it, as well as the Cromwell biography.

Next Up:



Last Train to Paris by Michele Zackheim

Just started this one and loving it so far. Here are the opening lines:

Some days, I'm too angry for words. Those are the days when I can't get to my writing table. When I don't bother to dress. When I stay in my ratty blue chenille bathrobe and shuffle around the house in my slippers. Those days I eat yoghurt out of the container, and drink too much coffee—sometimes too much whiskey. I read the newspaper and carry on conversations with myself about the dismal state of the universe. Over the years people have tried to assure me that as I grow older I will become less angry, more accepting of the stupidity I see on our planet. This has not proved true. Sometimes, to ease the tension, I'll read a mystery, hoping to be fooled; often I waste time daydreaming. But I have a job to do, a column to compose, so eventually I'll hunker down and begin writing. Then it get interesting.

One day she receives a box that had been found in the basement of her old news building. It's from Paris and has been there since the beginning of WWII.

The next morning is cloudy and the sky a mottled steel gray. I've become melancholy, like the weather. Then there is a loud clap of thunder, and just as it begins to rain, the delivery van arrives. What bad luck. But the man wrangles something onto a hand truck and delivers my young life to my elderly house.

I love that line "delivers my young life to my elderly house." But I need to stop telling you about it and go read!

sounds terrific.

>244 labfs39: feeling insecure about my tone in these Cromwell posts. Diarmaid MacCulloch's biography of Cromwell does influence a lot on how I view Mantel's The Mirror and the Light. More a stumbling upon (care of anniemod's recommendation), then a thoroughness.

Wow, I was really far behind on your thread. I really enjoyed all the Wolf Hall and Gone With the Wind conversation. I've had Wolf Hall since it came out in paperback and I own the next one too, but it's never the right time to read them so I was thinking of getting rid of them. I can't imagine picking them up before I retire, so I can rebuy them then, as retirement is very far away for me. But now you've made me rethink that! Maybe I should hold on to them and try to fit them in sooner. Hmmmm.

As for GWTW, I too read it as a teen (15 I think) and enjoyed it very much but didn't love it. The only character I liked was Rhett Butler, and I never understood how Scarlett didn't fall in love with him immediately and I had no idea what she saw in the sickly Ashley Wilkes. Ugh! I think she just liked him because she couldn't have him. Anyway, my husband and I tried to watch the movie a while ago -- he's never seen it -- and we were laughing at how appalling their world view was. My daughters, in their 20s, have zero interest in the book or film. I actually think it's going to fade away for most of the world.

>246 dchaikin: All is good, Dan. I always appreciate your comments and perspectives.

>247 Nickelini: Hi Joyce, I'm glad you were able to stop by.

I won't go so far as to urge you to read Wolf Hall and BUTB, for I too put them off for many years, but I was very glad I did. I just wished I had stopped there, with the death of Anne Boleyn, and skipped the last book. Perhaps you could read a chapter or two to get a taste of WH without committing. At least then you would know whether to discard them or not.

I know, Ashley Wilkes, ew! Team Rhett for sure. I think Ashley was the golden boy next door, older, unattainable, and the one thing she was not allowed to have. And he strings her along FOREVER. Then it became almost a habit. One of the interesting things is that GWTW is not a book with a happy ending. To lose someone you've taken for granted just when you realize you love them... ah.

I like the idea of GWTW fading away.

>247 Nickelini: I say read the three Mantel books right through back to back - they are completely immersive! I had to wait for the second and third to be published before I could read them, but they were page turners for me.

>236 labfs39: "sober drunk" wonderful expression

>241 dchaikin: Great discussion. I think I would add that in The Mirror and the Light by bringing in Cromwell's fictional daughter to the household, after all the young men who inhabited his busy household have moved on, Mantel is able to continue to show a more human side to him, to keep him alive although he knows he is a dead man walking.

>247 Nickelini: >238 dchaikin: Solid Rhett Butler here.

>249 SassyLassy: It was interesting that Mantel chose to create a character for his daughter, Jenneke, rather than expound on his assumed real-life daughter, Jane. I wonder why?

>250 labfs39: I wonder is it was so that she wouldn't be constrained by the historical record, as she would have been with Jane, although little is known about her. It might also have served to reenforce in the reader's mind his religious leanings and commitment to his values.

Last Train to Paris by Michele Zackheim
Published 2013, 251 p.

Octogenarian Rose Manon lives a quiet life in her Nevada home, working in the garden and writing a column for the New York Courier. One day she receives word that a trunk of hers was found in the basement of the Paris news office where she worked during World War II. Inside are all of her old columns, notes, letters, and other memorabilia. As she sorts through her past, she narrates her life′s story.

Rose was the child of an unhappy couple. Her mother is angry and uncaring, her father a drunk. As soon as she can, she escapes, bypassing college to work in a newspaper office. She works her way up the ladder into the newsroom. It′s not easy being a female journalist in the 1930s, especially if you don′t want to write society gossip, but Rose, or R.B. Manon, as she goes by in the journalism world, succeeds. In 1933 she becomes a reporter for the Paris Courier and, thanks to her speaking both French and German, is soon sent to Berlin as a political correspondent.

Throughout the 1930s, Rose moves back and forth between Paris and Berlin, watching and writing as the Nazi Party comes to power and the fear of war spreads across Europe. At first she feels secure, confident that her American journalist credentials will protect her. But Rose discovers that despite being nonreligious, being half Jewish is about to become a problem.

The Last Train to Paris is a book about a difficult mother-daughter relationship, about a split-second choice that changes your life forever, about being taken seriously in a man′s world, and about anger. Running through it is a sub-plot based on an incident from the author′s own family. In 1937 a distant cousin of hers was abducted by a German citizen in Paris. For two years the headlines carried the sensationalized story of the kidnapping, search, and subsequent trial. Originally the author was going to write a nonfiction book, but decided her fictional characters were more interesting. The result is a well-written and engaging story peppered with real-life people like Colette, Janet Flanner, and Aurora Sand. I enjoyed the book and am surprised that it has not received wider attention.

That sounds right up my alley. I added it to my wish list. Thanks for the review!

Last Train to Paris sounds like one I would like as well. Great comments, Lisa.

Nice review of An Untouched House, Lisa. I don't own that title, as I had temporarily suspended by Archipelago Books subscription the year that it was released. I've been wanting to read some of the books by the three giants of 20th century Dutch literature, Willem Frederik Hermans, Gerard Reve and Harry Mulisch, so I'll be on the lookout for this novel.

Last Train to Paris sounds interesting as well; another nice review!

>253 japaul22: >254 BLBera: Thank you. It was a quick, satisfying read.

>255 kidzdoc: I have read very little Dutch literature, in fact I only have two novels in LT that I've read: The Twin by Gerbrand Bakker and Madame Verona Comes Down the Hill by Dimitri Verhulst. And now An Untouched House. I have another Hermans book, The Darkroom of Damocles, on my wish list which was recommended by Monica (JustJoey, now trifolia). Also on my wish list is The Assault by Harry Mulisch, which you recommended.

Next Up:



Say You're One of Them by Uwem Akpan

>256 labfs39: I've also read The Twin by Gerbrand Bakker, which I liked, and Madame Verona Comes Down the Hill by Dimitri Verhulst, which was okay at best. I was very fond of The Assault by Harry Mulisch (somehow that doesn't sound right), and I own but haven't yet read The Darkroom of Damocles by Willem Frederik Hermans.

>256 labfs39:
I've read something else by Gerbrand Bakker, and I liked it (can't remember the title), but it was about Dutch people in Wales so it didn't feel super Netherlander. I also read Madame Verona Comes Down the Hill this past February, and I enjoyed it very much once I realized it wasn't the book I expected. The sentence structure is odd tho, so you need to groove with that.

>258 kidzdoc: I remember you liked The Twin more than I did. I had a hard time relating to the main character, and while that is certainly not a necessity, I find it does help. If I wasn't trying to read down my TBR pile, I would purchase The Assault. I think I have it in one of my online baskets somewhere, but I'm trying to stay focused on my shelves.

>259 Nickelini: I was inspired to read more about Gerbrand Bakker, and I think the book you are referring to is The Detour. Interestingly he is a gardener by trade (complete with license) and teaches skating in the winter.

"The two things {gardening and writing} work well together. In the autumn when I rake the dead leaves I can do it for hours – once I even disturbed a pile I'd made so I could go on raking. The sound is so wonderful: it lets you think in a subconscious way, in the back of your mind."

I wish International Impac Dublin literary award-winning books percolated out of my mind while raking!

Jerry (rocketjk) warned me in >143 rocketjk: about the book I am currently reading:

Just a note on >107 labfs39: Say You're One of Them is a great short-story collection in my opinion, one of my all-time favorites, in fact, but not to be read if you're looking for something light. The title story in particular is quite disturbing.

I am halfway through it and wow. Very good, but depressing and disturbing for sure. All the stories are about African children who are in horrible circumstances: living in a slum and prostituting themselves, being sold into child sex slavery, caught in wars they don't understand. Resilient, these kids fight on, but against terrible odds. And I haven't even gotten to the title story yet!

Say You're One of Them by Uwem Akpan

Although I don't often read short stories, the spine of this book caught my eye, and I'm glad it did. Uwem Akpan is a Jesuit priest from Nigeria who was educated in Kenya and the US. He says he wanted to write "a book about how children are faring in these endless conflicts in Africa. The world is not looking. I think fiction allows us to sit for a while with people we would rather not meet...I want their voices heard, their faces seen" (from an interview in The New Yorker quoted in the after matter). The result is a collection of five stories narrated by children who are trying to make sense of a violent world without the help of adults and often at the mercy of them.

In An Ex-mas Feast Jigana is waiting in a leaky shanty in Kenya for his twelve-year-old sister, Maisha, to return. She is a prostitute and the only reliable income for the family. Sniffing glue to stave off the pangs of hunger, Jigana argues with his parents that he would rather give up going to school than have Maisha move to a brothel to earn the school fees.

Fattening for Gabon is the story of ten-year-old Kotchikpa and his five-year-old sister Yewa. They are being raised by their uncle because their parents have aids. In an attempt to increase his fortunes, Uncle Fofo trades his wards for a motorcycle that he can use to illegally ferry more people across the Benin-Nigeria border. He is instructed to teach the children certain things in preparation for their journey to Gabon.

In What Language is That? a younger sibling talks about the relationship between two little girls who live across the street from one another in Ethiopia. They are best friends until sectarian violence breaks out, and their parents forbid them to speak to one another.

In Luxurious Hearses sixteen-year-old Jubril boards a bus of refugees bound for southern Nigeria. Ethnic cleansing has swept through the north, and despite considering himself a conservative Muslim, one who has willingly submitted to Sharia law, he is targeted by his friends for having Christian relatives. The bus is a microcosm of society as a whole and conflict between religions, genders roles, politics, civilian/military, and age consumes the passengers.

The last story, My Parents' Bedroom is the shortest but most devastating. Nine-year-old Monique is from a blended family. Her mother is Tutsi and her father is Hutu. One night she is told to watch her younger brother and to not open the door for anyone.

Despite their horrific nature, each story contains a moment of grace: an act of kindness that, although unable to mitigate the present, offers a glimmer of hope for the future. Sometimes a child can be saved, sometimes a person of one religion will protect a person of another religion, sometimes an adult is a safe person. But not often. And there are always consequences.

These stories are well-written and, with the exception of Luxurious Hearses which drags a bit, page-turners. I can't say I enjoyed reading this collection, but I am glad I read it.

Currently reading: A gift from BLBera. Thank you, Beth!



The woman who smashed codes : a true story of love, spies, and the unlikely heroine who outwitted America's enemies by Jason Fagone

>262 labfs39: for some reason I find that cover appealing. Nice find. Depressingly world. The next book looks fun.

>262 labfs39: Ah, so there's no "title story" as I thought there was. I guess I was thinking of "My Parents' Bedroom." In one of the stories, the book's title is a line spoken by one character to another, yes? Or is my memory completely gone?

>262 labfs39: Sounds like an important read but a very difficult one. My dad's been heavily involved in charity work in Uganda, Ethiopia and Sudan since the 1980s and has brought home many such stories from his travels there. I'm probably on the fence on whether I could immerse myself in these kind of stories (although I don't feel proud to say that).

>264 dchaikin: I like the cover too.

>265 rocketjk: You are right, Jerry. The title is taken from a line in My Parents' Bedroom. As the mother is going out that night, she tells Monique to not open the door, but also to "say you're one of them." As I was reading, I thought the line was going to come from Luxurious Hearses because Jubril is desperately trying to fit in somewhere—with the conservative Muslims, with the fleeing Christians, with the north, the south, his mother's people, his father's people—and being rejected by everyone. If that story had been tightened up, it would have been my second favorite.

>266 AlisonY: I don't think you have any reason to feel bad about not reading Say You're One of Them. We each have our safety lids. I have certain topics that I can only hear so much about, not because they are not important issues, but for my own sanity. Sometimes I need to focus on the light.

Spent some time catching up with your recent reading! Excellent reviews.

>268 avaland: Thanks, Lois

I'm a 100-odd pages into The Woman Who Smashed Codes and am really enjoying it. So far it's mostly been about Elizebeth Smith's time at Riverbank. What an interesting place that was! A millionaire named Fabyan created a sort of colony for scientists and funded big, unusual research projects. One was to uncover the secret codes in the Shakespeare plays, placed there by the the true author, Francis Bacon. Elizebeth was hired to assist in that project, but during WWI switched to cryptanalysis (codebreaking) for the government. She and her husband became the premier codebreakers in the US and every government agency sent their intercepted messages to Riverbank. I used to visit Geneva, IL occasionally, and I wish I had known about it and visited. The farmhouse on the property was renovated by Frank Lloyd Wright. The acoustics laboratory that Fayban built is still in use today.

ETA: I find myself on Wikipedia a lot looking up both obvious things like Riverbank and Fabyan, and peripheral but interesting things, like Lillie Langtry (one of the many celebrity visitors). That's slowing down what otherwise would be page-turning narrative nonfiction.

>270 labfs39: ok, cool. And fun post. It’s certainly all new me. Glad you’re enjoying.

>263 labfs39: Enjoy Lisa! One of the members in my book club grew up in the area about Riverbank and had never heard of it. I think she's planning to check it out next time she's in the area. I think most of Riverbank is a museum now.

>270 labfs39: Interesting! I saw this book all over the place when it first came out but didn't know anything about it, and it sounds cool.

>271 dchaikin: Thanks, Dan, The Woman Who Smashed Codes continues to be very interesting. I'm now up to the 1930s, and she is working for first the Treasury Department breaking codes used by rum runners and organized crime rings and then for the navy helping set up the first radio codebreaking department.

>272 BLBera: I think the museum and grounds at Riverbank could be very interesting. Much of the original acreage is now a forest preserve and the Japanese garden was restored. The Villa has some furniture, taxidermy, and other artifacts of the Fabyans, but it doesn't sound like it has much relating to the codebreakers. In the book it says that George Fayban burned a lot of documents toward the end of his life, much to Elizebeth's husband's dismay. He wanted to write the definitive history of cryptology.

>273 lisapeet: I read a fantastic memoir about the SOE and British cryptology during WWII called Between Silk and Cyanide. It led me to Alan Turing's biography, Alan Turing: The Enigma, but I didn't make it all the way through the 750 pages. A lot of math. This is my first book about codebreaking on this side of the pond. The kind of people who excel at cryptanalysis are probably well-represented here on LT. Attentive to detail, language-oriented, polyglot, puzzle doers. Interestingly many, if not most, of the exceptional codebreakers were not mathematicians. The exception that I can think of is Turing.

>274 labfs39: Cool, noted—thanks. I'm definitely a language lover/puzzle doer, so I hit that demographic right on the nose, and I love reading about cryptographers.