Our reads in June 2019

Another month,another pile of books. What are we reading in June?

Dusty's TBR for June
SF/F
James S A Corey - Caliban's War✔
Edgar Rice Burroughs - Master Mind of Mars✔
Vernor Vinge - Rainbow's End ✔
Abraham Merritt - The Moon Pool ✔
Amanda Stevens - The Awakening ✔
H P Lovecraft - Selected Stories ✔
Nathan Lowell - Quarter Share✔

from other genres
Jerry Spinelli -Maniac Magee ✔
Betty Smith - A Tree Grows in Brooklyn✔
E B White - Stuart Little✔
Nora Roberts - Shelter in Place✔
Lindsey Davis - A Capitol Death ✔
Rachel Field - Hitty : her first 100 years ✔
Georgette Heyer - THe Reluctant Widow ✔

Just started The Invisible Library by Genevieve Cogman for my SF&F reading group. The first 20 pages are not filling me with enthusiasm.

I am still halfway through A Memory Called Empire. I had to return it to the library and am waiting to get it again. That one is good so far. I just started Luna Moon Rising. I also have The Wolves of Winter to read.

I have a couple of nonfiction books and a couple mysteries to read this month - I have always liked Tony Hillerman and am happy his daughter Anne Hillerman has been continuing his series with her own twist.

I am packing up to move and have been going through my books. The thoughts of carting all those heavy boxes makes me cringe, but I am finding books I forgot I had and haven't read yet -(John Ringo series, Sharon Lee and Steve Miller's Liaden Universe books, the last two books in the Jack L. Chalker's Nathan Brazil series to name a few. I may end up rereading some favorites and finishing some series once I get everything moved and unpacked. I suspect the many trips up and down stairs will encourage me to get rid of more books in addition to the heavy text books already on the to donate pile.

I'm still reading Velocity Weapon by Megan E. O'Keefe for review. So far I'm enjoying it more than I expected to.

It, both the novel and the series, get better. In the first book I thought I was being pandered to a little too much as a fan.

This month's genre reading will be:

The Haunting of Tram Car 015, Jade City and Record of a Spaceborn Few.

Finished Four Past Midnight and The Million Cities and will start Dark Lord of Derkholm as soon as I finish non-SF The Night the Bear Ate Goombaw.

>8 ChrisRiesbeck: I'd love to hear what you think of The Dark Lord of Derkholm - I think Diana Wynne Jones' writing, both for adults and children, is so underrated these days.

Finished The Palace of Love by Jack Vance, a big surprise and my favourite from the first three Demon Princes books. There's a memorable villain, an unusual plot and Vance's writing, always stylish, is at it's best here.

Next up I'm reading The Killing Thing by Kate Wilhelm.

>9 SChant: Will do. I've read and enjoyed a number of her YA books. I think the only adult novel I've read so far is Deep Secret, which was so-so. It seemed pretty conventional (no pun on its setting intended) compared to her best YA.

For the most part I enjoyed the final book of Amanda Steven's Graveyard Queen series. The Awakening,though the denouement seemed really slow in coming,and then was far too abrupt and a bit unsatisfying. But on the whole,as a taphophile,I have thoroughly enjoyed this series about a graveyard restorer.
Now reading a children's classic,Maniac Magee and have 80 pages left of Rainbows End then I am off to Barsoom,with a new protagonist,Ulysses Paxton, in ERB's The Master Mind of Mars

>10 SFF1928-1973:
I actually really liked The killing thing, even though it feels like two unrelated stories glued together. They complement each other quite well.

Started the month by finishing Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky. So far it stands as the best read for the year. I thought I saw where it was going as things rushed to the climax, and then was surprised. Probably shouldn't have been, considering how thoroughly the author set the groundwork for that ending. I've added the sequel to the TBR list.

Next will be More Than Human by Theodore Sturgeon. Assuming I can dig out the copy I own. It's the June group read for the Science Fiction Book Club group on Facebook. I voted for it assuming I still have my copy, so of course now I can't find it.

Finished Lock In and I enjoyed it far more than Redshirts; I thought that all the 'sense of wonder' that was lacking from the latter had been saved up for the former. I bought straight into the world of Agent Chris Shane.

Now cleansing my palate with some aviation history before picking up something I last read more than fifty years ago: The Hobbit.

>15 RobertDay: Since Lock In appealed, you will probably like Head On as well.

Question: While reading Lock In, did you perceive Chris as male or female?

>16 ScoLgo: Head On is on the TBR pile.

I perceived Chris as male at the time, but that's my confirmation bias showing. When I read a few reviews before creating my own - something I always do to make sure I'm not repeating others too closely - I quickly came across others commenting that Chris was actually depicted in a gender neutral way, and I said to myself "Oh, very clever!" (and not in a sarcastic Brit way either).

I alluded to this in my review in a couple of ways. After all, if all your interactions with the real world are through a non-gendered machine, and we are only ever shown Agent Shane ostensibly on duty to a greater or lesser extent (law enforcement officers never being entirely off duty), then the scope for depicting them as one gender or another is actually quite limited. Adopting the first person pov makes that fairly seamless.

Finished the review copy of Velocity Weapon by Megan E. O'Keefe I received from the publisher. I really enjoyed it. It was just the right kind of space opera to get me out of my reading funk. I can't wait to get my hands on the next book.

Finished The Invisible Library by Genevieve Cogman. It was readable, with an engaging protagonist, but too much stuff chucked in - werewolves, vampires, the Fae, steampunk, and an ersatz Sherlock Holmes to name but a few - and the plot was basically chasing around alternate-London after a pointless mcguffin. It was OK but I won't be reading the rest of the series.

Just started Tentacle by Rita Indiana. Intriguing and uncomfortable so far.

Loved Jerry Spinelli's brilliant Newbery medal winner Maniac Magee (yeah yeah,not spec fic,so sue me..).
I'm finding ERBs Master Mind of Mars a little odd.When the original trilogy was 1st person ,with John Carter's pov,i just accepted the nonstop fighting. Once we went on to other 3rd person narrators the brutality of some of the characters gave me pause,when there is no southern gentleman's charm around. I suppose its a clue to ERBs pulp origins. In the present book we are confronted with an evil doctor/scientist,and I cant avoid a shudder at my instinctive thoughts of Mengele and his callous cruelty in the camps,where knowledge is the be all and end all of his motivation,as I read of this nasty Barsoomian villain,only 12 years or so before the real life Mengele.
Nonsense,but lively exciting nonsense.I'm always happy to revisit Barsoom.

Working my way through the Hugo novellas. Gods, Monsters and the Lucky Peach wasn't bad. Artificial Condition was entertaining fluff, but definitely award-worthy. The Black God's Drums I'd say was nearly as good as the Robson, although it felt a bit too forced in places. Binti: The Night Masquerade was terrible - Dan Brown levels of prose, and a plot that was all tis happened and then that happened. Am completely mystified by the love shown for Okorafor's sf. Currently reading Beneath the Sugar Sky, which reads like wannabe Gaiman, just as bland, but with the occasional flight of fancy that simply doesn't work. So far, a bad to mediocre shortlist.

>22 iansales:

But since when was the quality of prose essential for a successful sf book? I read only about 20-30 pages of Who fears death before lending it to a friend for her kid and so can't say much about it, but I know it didn't strike me as bad or unreadable.

Perhaps people are loving Okorafor's books for the same reason armies of white boys loved sf that was about them? Because they find themselves viscerally engaged in a story, in a world that takes their existence and importance for granted? Sf & fantasy are wish-fulfillment, role-playing genres par excellence. So if this sort of engagement plays a role in author appreciation, I don't think there's a point to criticising it when it is compensatory for such long and stark omissions.

>22 iansales:
I was less and less impressed with each Binti novella; the third one, I thought, plunged headlong into unthinking Mary Sue territory.

Men are awfully quick to label female characters as "Mary Sues" when they don't blink at the loads of imbecile "Gary Stus" that infest the media in incomparably larger numbers.

>25 LolaWalser:

Have you read the books?

Is it unfair to label the character of Binti as a Mary Sue by the third novella?

I don't blink at "the loads of imbecile "Gary Stus""?

>23 LolaWalser: Granted poor prose is no barrier to success - see Dan Brown as mentioned. But is it unreasonable to expect some quality of prose in a work nominated for an award? Yes, I know the Hugo is a popularity contest, but poor prose is surely a barrier to "visceral engagement"? And there is always a point in criticism. As you well know :-)

"Mary Sue" is a subjective label entirely dependent on speaker's prejudice and not some "impartial" objective assessment everyone would agree on. Once upon a time, when fanfic first appeared, it was useful for about five minutes as a technical criticism of the all-too-common juvenile tendency of inexperienced authors to insert themselves into their stories--that is, to insert themselves too visibly, transparently, and typically as impossibly perfect characters.

But that's in the past. The label was immediately adopted by legions of misogynistic dudebros as a stick to blast any female character with a modicum of agency, in a central role, or shown as strong and independent and so on. Forget fanfic, there hasn't been a single important female character in popular media in the past two decades or so who hasn't been called a "Mary Sue", from Hermione in Harry Potter through any and all superheroines to the latest Doctor Who.

Never mind that the criticism of "impossible" "perfection" or this and that in fantastic genres makes hardly any sense to begin with!

So, no, I don't give a fig about anyone's tossing around "Mary Sue" labels while we never, but never, see the same standards of criticism, the same antagonism, the same intensity and frequency of this criticism applied to male characters.

By the way, can we get some opinions on Okorafor that are not those by men or whites? Anyone? Crickets?

>27 iansales:

Ah, it didn't sound to me as if you were criticising Okorafor relative to some specific standard, just generally. I don't know what the standards for the Hugos are.

Wait, aren't the Hugos... about popularity? The ultimate people's choice?

>22 iansales: I haven't got all the way through it, but I also found the novella shortlist weak so far, and I agree that each Binti novella is worse than the one before it (and the first was just okay). So far The Night Masquerade is at the bottom of my ballot. I did enjoy Akata Warrior on last year's YA shortlist, though.

On the other hand, the novelette finalists have all been very good, much stronger than the lists in that category the last couple years. The Only Harmless Great Thing is my favorite so far, but I haven't read "If at First You Don't Succeed, Try, Try Again" yet.

>30 LolaWalser: Yup :-)

>29 LolaWalser: Well, generally, I find Okorafor's prose poor, but in this case I'm reading her *because* she's shortlisted for the Hugo, so perhaps my expectations are higher. While I certainly agree with you about immersion and engagement - and have encountered it myself several times; usually, I must admit, with characters who are *not* white males* - I don't think even that aspect is notably evident in Binti: The Night Masquerade for me because I find the narrative construction and prose too much of an obstacle. Still, YMMV, as they say.

* because achieving that level of engagement with a character that doesn't map onto your own gender, ethnicity, culture, etc, "should" indicate a higher level of writing skill (but, of course, it doesn't always work that way because sometimes something just *clicks*...).

>31 Stevil2001: I have the novelettes too, and I look forward to reading them.

I just downloaded Fall; or, Dodge in Hell: A Novel, which is Neal Stephenson's latest doorstopper. I'm a big fan of Stephenson, even though my opinions of his individual works have a very wide range. (I loved Reamde, Snow Crash and The Diamond Age, really liked Cryptonomicon, sort of liked Seveneves, but I just couldn't get into Anathem (which is generally his best-rated novel.) He throws a lot a you, and isn't the best at writing endings, but there's something about his writing style which draws me in.

In other news, I finished Look to Windward, which is probably my least favorite Culture novel (although the Culture series as a whole sets a very high bar!)

>32 iansales:

I guess I don't understand why your expectations are higher given it's a popularity contest. Maybe I'm wrong but I imagine people vote for things they loved, that spoke to them, and for this it's well known rarefied standards of literary excellence need not apply.

Is Okorafor being treated differently to the multitude of sf authors in the past who wrote for white boys? Is she really a worse writer than the majority of them?

>34 LolaWalser: Because the award is for "best novel", so I expect voters to apply some standards of quality to their votes. They don't, of course. More fool me. They might as well remove the word "best" from the award's title.

Is Okorafor being treated differently? Not that I'm aware of. Is she a worse writer? Of some or many past successful writers, well, obviously not. Compared to her peers, I think she is. Aliette de Bodard is a much much better writer, as is Nora Jemisin. The Fifth Season was a worthy winner of the Hugo. I think it shows a... paucity of consideration (to coin a phrase) when second and third books of trilogies appear on shortlists, and several have done in the last few years*.

* And no doubt in previous decades too - but I still think it shows a narrowness when it comes to the voters' choices.

>20 Sakerfalcon: I'm in the middle of it! A little weird (I like weird), and time travel, and so far so good. It packs in a lot of story for a short book.

>22 iansales: >31 Stevil2001:. I have read all of the novellas on this year's short list. My favorites were The Tea Master and the Detective and Artificial Condition. Gods, Monsters and the Lucky Peach was good, but seemed more like an excerpt from a novel. The rest seemed more like YA stories, which I never really like. There is a lot of "hand wavium" and things just happen.

I agree with you guys on the Binti novellas.

>35 iansales:. I have always thought of the Hugos as a popularity contest, so haven't really been that disappointed in the short lists. I share your thoughts on best novel when it comes to the Nebulas and have been very disappointed with many of the nominees in the past few years. I have stopped trying to read them all and just stick with ones that are more space opera - like, as I tend to like those. It seems like books are nominated because of the author's "popularity" or agenda and not because the book was well written or even a good story.

Started Mother of Invention - a collection of short stories about robots and AI by women and people of colour. For me, it's an interesting mix of known and new authors, and so far the stories are very good.

>36 karenb: Glad to hear that I'm alone in reading this little novel! It is good so far.

>22 iansales:, >23 LolaWalser:, >24 Petroglyph:, etc. re Okorafor. I posted this at the end of May's thread, apparently after everyone moved on to June.

I found this article about her to be of interest: https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/ct-ae-nnedi-okorafor-sci-fi-0526-st...

It would be interesting to know why George RR Martin chose her as a protege and what he finds to the strongest aspects of her writing.

>40 vwinsloe: Sadly, for copyright/contractual/legal reasons, that Chicago Tribune material is not available in EU countries.

Did the article reference NO's time on the writing team for Black Panther for Marvel? I came across reference to this whilst exploring a friend's library just the other day, and it may help explain some people's reaction to her work. (As I don't do comics and have some of NO's books on the TBR pile but have not previously read her, I currently have no opinion on the matter either way.)

(Edit: just checked back with the library in question. NO did some tie-in work on the Black Panther title, such as Wakanda Forever and similar works.)

>41 RobertDay:
Here is an unpaywalled version of that article. It seemed... tendentious to me, though I don't know enough about either Martin or Okorafor to say anything substantial.

Some of Okorafor's Black Panther comics (Long Live the King) were on the Best Graphic Story shortlist this year; they were serviceable superhero stuff, but I wouldn't give it an award. But I think Okorafor is writing those comics because she's popular right now, not popular because she's writing those comics.

I mean, clearly lots of people like her stuff, and there's also a bit of a cultural moment she's tapped into. Like, she's been writing for over a decade (my wife read and liked Zahrah the Windseeker, Shadow Speaker, and Who Fears Death a few years ago, and they came out 2005-10), but she suddenly blew up over the last couple years. I think post-Sad Puppies, post-Black Panther, there's been a shift in sff reading and publishing that has drawn a lot of new attention to her and her work.

I don't see why the Hugos working through popular vote means people can't complain when stuff they don't like makes the shortlist. I would complain if another John Scalzi novel story made it this year, but thankfully not.

I think Okorafor might be more interesting as a personage and a commentator than for her fiction writing. The one thing I've read by her is Lagoon which I liked, but I've read better. It's always possible that she's surfed her current wave as far as it will go and needs to get a new shtick, as it sounds like she's becoming her own cliche.

> all of the above... Jemisin is an excellent spokesperson for sf and I can see how that has given more people an appreciation of her books - which, incidentally, I find to be pretty good. I have a lot of time for her. Okorafor I think occupies a similar position, and while I respect her as a commentator on genre I've yet to find anything she's written all that impressive. As for the comics thing... certainly some genre writers' careers have been built on comics, like Gaiman, but I never got the impression that was true of Okorafor.

>42 Petroglyph: Thanks for that, Petroglyph.

Finally finished the interminable Vernor Vinge Rainbows End. One more Hugo/Nebula past winners to go,Bacigalupi's The Windup Girl which I will read next month.
Cant add books on to my WWEnd group page,because yet again WWEnd is down. Once before I went on a circuitous trail and managed to get in,but now I cant be bothered. What a shame,I really loved that site,and now its ruined :0(

I think I'll search for the 2019 Retro Hugos I havent read yet
Fritz Leiber Conjure Wife
Moore/Kuttner Earth's Last Citadel
Fritz Leiber Gather, Darkness!
Hermann Hesse The Glass Bead Game
C. S. Lewis Perelandra ✔
A. E. van Vogt The Weapon Makers ✔
Certainly will read the Leiber and Moore/Kuttner,but Hesse doesnt sound like my cup of tea at all,so i may avoid that 520 page philosophical tome. lol

>48 dustydigger: I read and enjoyed all the Hesse I could get my hands on in college, but have never read him since. I remember liking Glass Bead Game, but my guess is that if you think it's not your cup of tea, it probably isn't.

>48 dustydigger:, >49 Stevil2001: I would be quite surprised, had the Hugos really existed in 1949, if the Hesse had managed to even get nominated. As others have commented, the Hugos are a popularity contest, and I don't think something as radical as Hesse would have made the cut.

>50 RobertDay: Oh, definitely, there's no way. I never participate in the Retro Hugos, and I don't put much stock in what wins; I think they're rewarding something very different to what the actual Hugos, awarded contemporaneously to publication, reward. The neat thing about the Hugos is getting an insight into what fandom valued at a particular time; the Retro Hugos award what we are nostalgic for. I'm very doubtful Pinnochio would have been thought of as genre in 1941, even if there had been a Dramatic Presenation category: http://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-history/1941-retro-hugo-awards/

And the nominating counts are so low it's easy for weird stuff to make the ballot. Some stuff gets onto the Retro ballot with nine nominations! http://www.thehugoawards.org/content/pdf/1941HugoStatistics.pdf

>47 dustydigger: The WWE site was down for a week or so, but I was able to get back on yesterday. Here's the latest post about the site.

Posted 2019-06-06 10:26 AM (#20839 - in reply to #20837)
Subject: Re: Unable to access site...now problems


Admin

Posts: 3213
2000
Location: Dallas, Texas
Finally have some good solid news. The site is set up on the new host in a Virtual Private Network that should speed things up a bit. Friday night we will shut down the forum and the site will go down for a few hours while we make the final transfer of the data over to the new host.

By Saturday morning we should be up and running again on the new host and we can put this sorry period behind us and begin the real work of repairing the lost data. Wish us luck!

Yay! Thanks daxxh for the info.I see the missing books on my challenges havent returned though. Do you think they will reappear on the new site,or will they be lost for good,and will need searching out elsewhere? I reckon I am about 20 or more books shortThank heavens for my LibraryThing backup!!

Very disappointed by Abraham Merritt's The Moon Pool Started off great.Under the ruins of an ancient city is the door to an underground society. The first part apparently was a magazine short story,and was fine. Then it was expanded into a dull,turgid,longwinded,rather boring societies - underground tale with a cringemaking romance. It went on forever then suddenly ended very abruptly! Not amused.
ERB did a much better job 3 years later with his Pellucidar series.
Oh well,I needed a ''M'' author for an alphabet challenge,so at least I fulfilled that! :0)
Taking a short break from SF with a historical mystery,and a kids book. Then its back into the fray with Master Mind of Mars. Also got to gird my loins ready for Caliban's War.600 pages long.
The Expanse novels are OK,pleasant enough but not much more than that,IMO. I am having to read the first two in preparation for reading Abaddon's Gate for my Locus winners challenge,which I will be taking up omce I finish the last book for my Hugo/Nebula winner challenge.The Windup Girl:0)

I am reading Feed for the first time. It is a YA dystopian novel depicting a world in which 75% of the population has a social network feed directly implanted in the brain. It was written 2002, and intended as satire, I'm sure, but it is not too far from where we are in 2019, particularly regarding the statements from the US President.

Currently reading the collected Demon Princes Vol. 1 by Jack Vance...

A long train journey today enabled me to blast through The Hobbit. If it wasn't such a well-known book, I doubt I'd be that impressed, and (though this may sound like heresy) I think the Peter Jackson films are an improvement, especially for adult audiences.

Next up is some mainstream Banks, A Song of Stone, and Mary Doria Russell's The Sparrow to follow.

>57 RobertDay:
I'm currently reading A song of stone as well. I'll be looking forward to your review!

I've got two going right now, Velocity Weapon by Megan E. O'Keefe and Recursion by Blake Crouch. Enjoying both so far!

Started reading More Than Human by Theodore Sturgeon this morning. I know I read it once, many years ago, but it was apparently long enough ago that this amounts to a first reading. So far - very favorably impressed.

Finished The Killing Thing by Kate Wilhelm, which I enjoyed a good deal. As you'd expect from Kate Wilhelm it's very well written, and the unusual (for the era) non-linear timeline is well handled. On the one hand it's an exciting Man vs. Non-Asimov Robot thriller. On another level it's hard not to equate man's annexing of earthlike worlds with America's involvement in Vietnam, demonstrating humanity at it's least humane.

Next up I'm reading City of the Chasch by Jack Vance.

Read The Only Harmless Great Thing, which I didn't take to; and The Tea Master and the Detective, which I thought good. Not read all the novelettes yet, but de Bodard's novella is easily the best of the shortlist.

Basically finished up Jade City (B) yesterday evening and I have to admit that my reaction was the novel was not bad but not great. That gangster epics are not really my thing didn't help, even if the meta-story implied of respectability gained by war-time service and a code of self-serving honor being insufficient to transcend criminality does intrigue me. That no one character really grabbed my imagination also didn't help. Yeah, I'm damning with faint praise on this one.

City of the Chasch disappointed me only insofar as my secondhand copy was polluted by cigarette-related toxins so I was unable to confirm my initial impression that it's an inoffensive pastiche of Burroughs' Martian stories.

I'm hoping for better luck with the The Year's Best Science Fiction No.2 edited by Harry Harrison and Brian Aldiss.

I'm midway through the ludicrous Mention My Name in Atlantis, and I've just acquired a copy of Kiernan's Black Helicopters that I'll probably read while traveling later this month.

Just finished Into the Fire by Elizabeth Moon, sequel to Cold Welcome -- apparently the start of a new Vatta series. I haven't felt these are as good as her other series (either SF or fantasy ones). They seem a bit heavy & bogged down at times. Some of the characters do things that don't ring as true as in the first Vatta series -- and the primary villains are so incredibly stupid it's hard to believe they could have built & maintained their criminal empires. Still OK for someone like me who really likes this kind of adventure, but I hope she sharpens things up in future works. I wouldn't ever recommend someone trying Moon to start with these ones.

Getting started on the third Becky Chambers book for book group this week. Finished Tentacle, which was short and odd but I kinda liked it.

re: earlier discussion of Nnedi Okorafor's books
I don't have to like every writer's stories. It's okay if someone's stories do nothing for me. That doesn't mean that they're a bad writer. And if a writer and editor like George R. R. Martin thinks they're okay, they're probably not bad. Just saying.

>67 karenb:, I hear you there. I can't stomach Flannery O'Conner, while acknowledging she's a stellar model for any author to follow.

>67 karenb: Actually, there *is* a difference. There are writers whose books I don't like but can acknowledge the skill with which they're written. But there are writers whose skill I think lacking. Just because Dan Brown sells a lot of books, that doesn't make him a good writer. And George RR Martin's opinion means little - he's a commercially successful writer, but that doesn't make him a good prose stylist (which he's not). And when one successful writer says another writer is good, especially in a tightly-knit field like genre fiction, there could be any number of reasons why they've gone on record with that, few of which have anything to do with the actual prose.

>69 iansales:. Coming to the defense of >67 karenb: here. I think that what you say is true if you are talking about white, English speaking, western European prose. But there are hugely well regarded books, written in a rhythm and/or dialect that are simply not for me. Their Eyes Were Watching God comes immediately to mind. I can't even acknowledge the skill with which it is written.

So there's the cultural bias angle to consider. I guess that's my point.

>70 vwinsloe: Nnedi Okorafor is a US author. And I have read many non-Anglophone authors - I'm a big fan of both Hanan Al-Shaykh and Leila Aboulela, for example - so no, that argument won't wash either.

>70 vwinsloe: I might also add I've been hugely impressed by the two William Faulkner novels I've so far read, and he's a dead white US male but writes in a dialect completely foreign to me (ie, the American South).

>71 iansales:
I still say that your opinion remains your own, and we can argue all day about who's a good prose stylist (or not) and other writerly skills. Many people have argued for years and years about these topics and various authors. That still doesn't make any one person the arbiter of who is a good or bad writer.

Or maybe I just have too much humility about my own opinions? Regarding another subject, a teacher once gently commented that, whatever my opinion of a professional's work, their work was still better than mine.

Correction: Nnedi Okorafor is a US-Nigerian author.

>73 karenb: People's opinions would be equal if everyone was informed to the same level on subjects. Unless you're a medical doctor, I'm not going to respect your medical opinion, for example. Being a published professional writer does not make their writing better than a non-professional writer, published or otherwise.

She was born in the US and her career is US-based. Her fiction may incorporate elements of her Nigerian background, but career-wise she's still US.

ETA: oops. Added "not" to "Being a published professional writer does not make their writing better than a non-professional writer, published or otherwise"

>74 iansales:. The author who I mentioned above, Nora Zeale Hurston was also from the USA. I intentionally mentioned her book instead of Things Fall Apart, another highly regarded novel by a Nigerian author, for that reason. I am not specifically talking about country of origin of the author, although obviously that is a factor as well. I am talking about prose with language patterns, rhythms and imagery that are culturally based.

Although these novels are written in the English language and are not translated, I find them difficult to read, the style doesn't flow, the language seems wooden and forced. I don't disparage the author or the readers who regard these books highly. (Particularly since many are professionals in the field of literature.) I just figure that the author's culture differs too much from my own to allow me to appreciate it.

>75 vwinsloe: Granted culture influences prose, even the culture of a non-Anglophone work's translator. I can't read Russian but I felt the translation of the Strugatskys' Roadside Picnic - the translation used for the SF Masterworks edition - had "Americified" it far too much, and that spoiled the book for me. (On the other hand, they say Umberto Eco's English translator is a better writer than Eco himself, and the English editions are superior to the original Italian.)

And then you have distinct national cultures within an English-speaking nation - try reading Iain Banks's The Bridge or Feersum Endjinn...

But I actually like it when a work of fiction allows me to view a different culture, even if it's not a perfect view because it's been bowdlerised to some extent by the act of translating it.

>76 iansales: I always wondered how much of Stanislaw Lem's The Cyberiad was down to the translator, as the inventive word-play in that book always astounded me (especially when I first read it back in the 1970s as a far younger person).

Not so long ago, a Polish colleague saw me looking at stuff about Lem online in my lunch break and (after he'd recovered from the surprise of seeing a Brit who even knew about him!) commented that he detested 'The Cyberiad' because they had had to read it in school, where it had about the same impact as Shakespeare has to British schoolkids who are exposed to it too early.

Sometimes, it's just down to the translator's ability. I recently acquired the recent new translation of the Strugatskys' Hard to be a God (in the version restoring much of the original text) and did a side-by-side comparison of the new and previous translations. The ease and flow of the later version was much better, though I also knew more about Soviet Russia when I read the new edition than I did when I originally read it back in the 1980s.

>77 RobertDay: Reminds me of seeing the Solaris movie (Tarkowsky version) which bored me stiff :-)

>74 iansales: I've made money with my writing, so my opinion counts more than yours? OK then.

I've made money by writing. I've made a living by writing. FYI.

My daughter can play piano, and I can't. I still know if she hits a wrong note.

Reading for pleasure is a purely subjective experience.

>76 iansales:. I highly enjoyed Iain M. Banks's Culture series. Some books more than others. But the way my particular brain is wired, I enjoyed most of those books more than any of Terry Prachett's Discworld series; as much as I wanted to love them.

I do love when I can learn about a culture through reading, but I need a good cultural translator sometimes to make it accessible for me. My points of reference, and indeed, the way my brain is wired, just don't allow me to appreciate works from cultures that are beyond my ken. Particularly indigenous non-white cultures.

Anyway, I digress. I don't believe that there is any universal ideal for good prose. Art is not prescriptive, and I believe that writing is an art form as much as music, sculpture or painting.

>79 karenb: the word "not" seems to have fallen out of that sentence. I meant the exact opposite. Have edited it to add the word in.

This is what happens when you post to a forum using a phone. You end up missing out an important word in a sentence. Oh well.

For the record... being published does not mean a writer writes good prose. As a friend once said, to succeed as a writer you have to be mediocre. (He meant succeed commercially.) The enjoyment you take from reading a book is purely subjective. That is not necessarily linked to the quality of its prose. There is no ideal form of prose, but there is certainly a spectrum - and we can generally agree what is good and what is bad. But some people seem to conflate "I enjoyed this book" with "this book is good", when they're two separate things. Some people, such as myself, get more enjoyment out of good prose than bad, but I can also enjoy a book I know to be badly-written. But I would not call it a good book.

>84 iansales:
This still doesn't explain why you think that your opinion cannot be just that, an opinion (never mind accurate). And why you spent so much time on Nnedi Okorafor.

Who is in fact a Nigerian-American writer, because that's how she describes herself. (Neither you nor I get votes on that one; only Okorafor herself does.)

(But that's more than enough of that topic, I hope. Thank you all for your patience.)

Yesterday I finished the third Becky Chambers book, Record of a spaceborn few. I know some people who disliked the way it told the stories of several people at once, but I liked the selection of characters, plus different views about generation ships, and how people live and work and find satisfaction (or not) in life.

>84 iansales:. "That is not necessarily linked to the quality of its prose. There is no ideal form of prose, but there is certainly a spectrum - and we can generally agree what is good and what is bad."

I don't think there is general agreement. I think that there are differences that must be accounted for, such as the historical period in which it is written as well as the cultural milieu.

In order to come up with a general agreement about the quality of prose, you'd need to be able to articulate the elements of which good prose is comprised. So is it grammar? Spelling? Punctuation? Short sentences? Compound sentences? A particular mix?

Or is it the numbers and variations of themes? The single plot line or point of view? Originality? Grand ideas?

Oh dear. Every time I think of an element that might distinguish "quality prose," I think of a well-regarded book that breaks those rules. And lots of poorly regarded books that comply with them all.

Art. I know it when I see it. ;>)

Not sure if y'all count this as science fiction, but anyway I am reading and very much enjoying One of Our Thursdays is Missing, the 6th offering in Jasper Fforde's humorous and inventive "Thursday Next" series.

I knocked off The Haunting of Tram Car 015 (A) yesterday evening and found it totally charming. I'd also like to see more!

>89 Shrike58:
That looks super interesting! Thanks for the tip!

>89 Shrike58:

I read it earlier this year and I hope he returns to it again - it is charming on its own, it will be even better as a start of a series :)

Moving from the charming to the awful we have the non-fiction study Wasteland: The Great War and the Origins of Modern Horror (B), which loses some power due to the author's wide-ranging if somewhat scattershot approach to cultural production in the "Interwar" period while at the same time engaging in political polemics. Poole credits no one for their input and this book would have been stronger with some editorial direction that seems to have been non-existent. Still, when was the last time you saw H.P. Lovecraft, Franz Kafka, T.S. Elliott and Fritz Lang (as notable examples) all invoked in the same analysis?

Finally finished The Bitter Twins, which really ought to have been a quicker read. The worldbuilding is good and it's well plotted, but it reads in parts like fanfic and that really doesn't work for me. I'll read the third book of the trilogy because I've enjoyed the first two, and that's pretty rare for me with fantasy.

I also read all of the Hugo nominees for Best Novella this year and am now working my way through Best Novelette.

I'm again chiming in with a work that I'm not 100% sure folks here will count as Science Fiction. I recently finished and highly recommend Arkady by Patrick Langley. The novel portrays a fractured by still recognizable dystopian England of the near future. Society is imploding and government is tightening control. In the meantime, though, people have jobs to go to and cell phones and laptops are still working, but the spiritual darkness is distinct. You could look at the book as a 1984 prequel. However, that sort of description does not do the novel justice, and the book's strongest feature is the characterizations of the two brothers who serve as protagonists and moral core. The Guardian's review calls Arkady "A distinctly post-Brexit novel," which seems apt.

Speaking of debatably science fiction, I just read Cosmicomics by Italo Calvino. By some lights that's in the genre, given these are short stories inspired by bits of scientific fact and theory, but I'd call the results fantasy.

Sort of continuing the theme (sort of), I'm currently about half-way through Mary Doria Russell's The Sparrow and enjoying it. The plot has been done before, broadly (Harry Harrison's short story The Streets of Ashkelon and James Blish's A Case of Conscience are my personal touchstones), but the framing device is interesting and the characters engaging. The religious content doesn't do too much to offend this Church of England-educated agnostic and is indeed illuminating in places. About the only fault I've spotted so far is the one of having all the crew land on the alien world without leaving someone safely aboard the mothership, but l've seen worse plot-driven silliness before elsewhere.

I have had a lovely self-indulgent month reading Lovecraft,filling in on stories previously unread. I know many modern readers make a big fuss about racism in HPLs work,but reading through a mass of his stuff,ANYONE who is poor or ill-educated or of course female also fares badly. lol. Yep,only white, Anglo Saxon, university educated Protestant (unless they have lapsed to follow Elder Gods and the like) males pass scrutiny. But the grandiloquent prose,the fantastic descriptions of creepy landscape,and the whole doom ridden scenarios make you happily identify with these guys.
But what's with all these attics? So many times the half crazed or doomed characters live in the attic. With all the terrible warnings they get,if I was being targeted by strange eldritch creatures etc,I wouldnt be in the attic. I want a nice ground floor room,with at least two exits,and lots of windows on every wall so I can jump out and run away!But then of course I am a wekwilled,weak brained female,aren't I,so what else would you expect?
You've got to love these scholarly types who sit there in their inescapable attics,with their ink and quills, hurriedly writing their final observations for our benefit and warning,while the creature is sloshing up the stairs,glub-glubbing in a sinister way,or scratching at the window.
I should finish Master Mind of Mars today.and then only have 300 pages of Caliban's War to read to complete this month's TBR.
Next up will be The Windup Girl my final book in my Hugo /Nebula marathon read through,and Becky Chambers Record of a Spaceborn Few

I'm reading The Dervish House. I should say "attempting to read", because I'm finding it a bit difficult to get into, but I recall from reading Brasyl and River of Gods that it requires some focus to read this author. I remember that the others were rewarding though, so I will persevere.

Finished Record of a Spaceborn Few this evening (A-) and it's best taken as a community group portrait more than anything else; kind of an extension of the sociological SF of the 1960s before Le Guin turned it into Literature with a capital L. I'll admit that I respect it more than I love it, but there's no denying that it flows along very smoothly. I'll also not deny that I tend to put plot first in terms of what I'm looking for in my fiction.

P.S.

Having just read a Reddit exercise with Chambers where she invokes Le Guin maybe I should do a little more background research first!

>98 vwinsloe:

Yes, McDonald novels can be a little heavy lift in the opening chapters, but totally worth it. He generally offers a significant number of initially-unconnected plot-lines as well as challenging settings and diverse characters. The Dervish House is great, every bit the equal of the other two books you mentioned.

>99 Shrike58: I'm 60 pages in to Spaceborn Few and am already irritated with the multiple points of view,each section only 5 or 6 pages long. Its not a writing style I like,and its a similar thing with another of my reads, Caliban's War but at least there there are reasonably long chapters that I can settle into. Maybe I'll enjoy Spaceborn a bit more as I get to know the characters,but I am finding the whole thing a bit bland.I honestly cant see just why Chambers is garnering so much attention,but probably thats just me! lol

Plot really does seem optional with Chambers! She seems more interested in thinking through what a sustainable and survivable culture in the wake of disaster looks like; post-dystopianism anyone? That's why I invoke 1960s SF because Chambers is more about the ideas than anything else, but where a writer from the Sixties would come up with a snappy plot Chambers concentrates on individual interaction; almost like a series of miniature portraits.

Here's that Reddit exercise I invoked:

https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/8jwibn/im_becky_chambers_author_of_the_w...

Next into my reading rotations is The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction September/October 2018 edited by C. C. Finlay.

Oh,oh! That's torn it,Shrike 58. You've lured me in to Reddit! Once I start reading there I just meander from page topage,or wonder''What do people say about such and such a book?'' I am off there now......I may be some time,as the saying goes.......:0)

Always glad to be of help!

However, Chambers is probably going to have to tighten up her writing strategies as at a certain point she's going to start having continuity issues. Though that's probably why she has her own wiki.

Still working on Fall; or, Dodge in Hell; A Novel, which is Neal Stephenson's newest tome. I'm about halfway through and it is sort of slow-going. Lots of very interesting concepts that are explored, but it is definitely one of his "thinkier" pieces. (i.e. the opposite of Reamde, which shares several characters). Of course, I fully expect the story to take some twists and turns in the second half, so I'm sticking with it.

Finished Dark Lord of Derkhelm, started The Secret of Life.

>100 paradoxosalpha:. Thanks for the encouragement. I'm about 50 pages in and it is starting to "click" now.

Tentacle was an odd little book, not quite sure what to think of it. It's certainly different to anything else I've read, and the Dominican setting comes over very clearly.

Now I'm reading Radiance by Catherynne Valente which is more Science Fantasy than SF, and Double vision by Tricia Sullivan.

>106 drmamm: It appears Stephenson's "Fall; or, Dodge in Hell; A Novel" is not to be released until next month here. There are several reviews already available and they support the message of a severe slow-down in the last third of the book.

Also next month, the 31st to be precise, is the release date of another Stephenson book, Atmosphaera Incognita.

I shall not be jumping into anymore Stephenson books until they have been tried and tested by others. SEVENEVES burnt me bad.

Added The Martian by Andy Weir into my rotation. Decided I was finally in the mood for it.

I have just started Assassin's Apprentice by Robin Hobb. I find fantasy type books a mixed bag but I am 65 pages in and like Hobb's writing style. I hope this continues as there are 2 more books to read in this trilogy

I just finished The arrival of missives, a Weird Fiction novella by Aliya Whiteley. Perhaps listing it as the Science Fiction kind of SF is a bit of a spoiler, but so it goes. I liked it a lot! It was unusual for Weird Fiction in that it centres women's concerns. Also, the main character's voice is wonderfully realised. Recommended!

>97 dustydigger:
"But what's with all these attics? So many times the half crazed or doomed characters live in the attic. With all the terrible warnings they get,if I was being targeted by strange eldritch creatures etc,I wouldnt be in the attic. I want a nice ground floor room,with at least two exits,and lots of windows on every wall so I can jump out and run away!But then of course I am a weakwilled,weak brained female,aren't I,so what else would you expect?
You've got to love these scholarly types who sit there in their inescapable attics,with their ink and quills, hurriedly writing their final observations for our benefit and warning,while the creature is sloshing up the stairs,glub-glubbing in a sinister way,or scratching at the window."

Well, in HPL basements are just as bad. Think "Pickman's Model", "The Rats in the Walls", not to mention those massive trapdoors in "At the Mountains of Madness". Barns & outbuildings aren't too salubrious either, e.g. "The Dunwich Horror". Inns, rooming houses, & universities are filled with horror; also the outdoors -- watch out for that Black Goat. And that cosy fireside has something sitting by it which isn't as human as it looks.
Remember to scream as you run away and then get hauled to the asylum!

Hi guys!
I'm new to librarything.
I'm a big fan of science fiction books!
But I'm new and just get started i need sci fi books with ideas which is mind blowing!
Any recommendations?

>115 MeR7: Please start a new thread with your question. I'm sure there are heaps of folks here who will gladly recommend books to you if you tell us a little of what kind of books you like, but this thread is for discussing what we are reading at the moment.

>114 rshart3: Oh boy,nowhere is safe really,is it?lol.But in my mind I tend to associate the attics with HPL,and the cellars with Poe. :0)
And then there are the smells,usually depicted as stenches.All those rotting things do give off a revolting pong.
Ah,dear old HPL,what a lovely 2 months I have spent in his fascinating imagination,to the neglect of much of my other books,but it was fun. Think I'll take a break now and perhaps return in October for Halloween.
......
Now its back to Windup Girl and 70 pages in,I hate it. I never fancy books set in Asian teeming slums,the dust and heat and poverty. Add on that this book is set in a dystopian future after the oil ran out and global warming drowned the coasts,and the multinational corporations are dominating the world economically through foodand greed,cruelty and brute force are the order of the day,its not a world setting I want to be in!And the characters are all cruel,rapaciously greedy,callous and sleazy.Add that Bacigalupi pounds us with a vividly visceral prose, stark and in your faceits so not my cup of tea.lol.
Oh,and its written in the present tense,my least favourite style. All in all,its likely to be a pickup and put down read I think :0(

You follow this thread long enough you'll get enough suggestions to fill your every waking hour!

So, what are you reading right now?

Vis-a-vis Windup Girl that book may as much be a personal commentary by Bacigalupi on his time as a businessman in the Far East and what he REALLY thought about the whole experience. One of my favorite pranks remains encouraging a friend to sit down with Paolo at Capclave in 2014 where she could express her problems with the book and the man got on earful! From that encounter, and some other comments Bacigalupi made at the convention, he reserves the right to be transgressive and be confrontational otherwise he feels hamstrung as a writer.

>117 dustydigger:. I'm sure that the setting in The Windup Girl is intentionally hateful. A world already steeped in racism, sexism and corporate greed transformed by climate change is not gonna be pretty. What stood out for me in the middle of that steaming, reeking backdrop was the character of Emiko.

There is certainly a lot to argue about with that book. But it really worked for me.

I have just finished Dietz "The Legion of the damned " series. All 8 books plus the prequels.

NOT sure about him. A Lot of repetition of situations and locations and Psych. wrt Love interest and Psych. interests. Hmm. Seems like the there is a fair amount of repetition of everything
over 8 + 3 prequels.

But, but I still do like it :-( SORT OF.

Guido.

Picked up A Big Ship at the Edge of the Universe as it was going cheap and I seemed to remember some positive comments about it. Then I discovered the words "magic" on the first page... Currently about 10% in and the worldbuilding is pretty bad - recycled crap from films, basically, with added magic where the author couldn't be arsed to work anything out. I'll finish but I recommend reading Melissa Scott's Silence Leigh trilogy instead if you like sf with magic.

Oh, and I posted a review of the current Hugo novella shortlist and managed to get away without too many attacks from various quarters... https://iansales.com/2019/06/21/the-hugos-2019-novellas/

Currently reading Shift by Hugh Howey....

>110 pgmcc: What's that about Atmosphaera Incognita?

Per google this appears to be a novellete released in 2013.

I hear you about getting burned, but I'll probably still read whatever Stephenson publishes, so curious whether there's anything new coming out based on that original work?

>11 ChrisRiesbeck:,>120 vwinsloe:
Oh yes,I can see his agenda,and the writing is certainly vivid and visceralbut its going to be one of those duty reads,once finished never revisited.:0)
Finished Corey's Caliban's War,enjoyable enough,and I preferred it to Leviathan Wakes possibly because it was much more a straightforward adventure.Could have been at least 50 pages shorter .
Of course the final sentence was a masterstroke as a cliffhanger! So glad I have Abaddon's Gate at hand to carry straight on. I only read the first two in the series in preparation for Locus winning Gate. I've read 36/48 Locus winners and once I finish Windup Girl will be concentrating on that list :0)

Finished my listen of The Martian by Andy Weir. Excellent reader. Enjoyed it very much.

To be honest I've not been gung-ho to read any more of Bacigalupi's works, even though he made a favorable impression on me as a personality (very personally unpretentious and committed). Also, so many books so little time!

> 128
Same here (well, not about the impression, I have never met him, but about being gung-ho). For me it is more that he is writing near-future kind of dystopian climate SF, and that is just too real and depressing at the moment...

>128 Shrike58: and >129 divinenanny: I just thought the book was racist and gave up about 30 pages in. I also didn't want to read a book about a sex slave.

Re The Windup Girl, the first section is much more in your face than the rest of the book. The sex slave is only one of many threads. Overall it's much more about many different shifting power relationships in a large, complex, but highly resource-constrained environment.

Adding One Word Kill by Mark Lawrence to my reading rotation.

>128 Shrike58: I've read The Water Knife which is much different; more like an action/suspense novel. I've also read Ship Breaker which is YA. I enjoyed them both, but not as much as The Windup Girl. You may enjoy them more.

>130 iansales: >131 ChrisRiesbeck: I found The Windup Girl to be very off putting in the beginning as well, especially its depiction of racism and sexism. In the end, I saw the sex slave character as the embodiment of internalized patriarchy, which was one of the reasons that the book worked so well for me.

Personally loved The Windup Girl for many reasons already stated....

I finished Radiance, which was definitely Science Fantasy. Excellent, imaginative worldbuilding with no basis in scientific reality, and an interesting approach to narrative structure.

Double vision is proving interesting. I can see why some reviewers found it confusing.

I just finished Assassin's Apprentice by Robin Hobb. I thought this would be a great read at first but I don't really like a first person narrative too much. At times I found it confusing when the "Skill" was launched out of the blue. Also I like it when one gets into the head of the main character but not for the whole book. The writer does not really develop other major characters very much...she only goes so far then just when you develop an interest in another character you are bounced to another.

There are two more books to this series. I am not so sure I am going to continue the series.

>79 karenb:
>83 iansales:

That's okay, I didn't make my living writing fiction, so we probably agree there. (Clarifying/l'esprit de l'escalier. -KB)