Group read?

Is there anyone who would like to do a group read?

If so, what?

Feel free to suggest books that are country-specific. After all, this doesn't have to be a hugely organised or all-inclusive thing.

Personally I think the books I'd most like to read are Six Degrees: Our Future on a Hotter Planet by Mark Lynas, or Heat: How We Can Stop the Planet Burning by George Monbiot.

Possible drawbacks - both of these are written by UK authors, so they might be rather Britannicentric (I don't know, I haven't read them). And perhaps global warming isn't a subject that will generate much discussion.

If we do want to generate discussion, here's a possibly batty idea - what about doing a joint group read with the Political Conservatives group (i.e. we both read the same book)?

I think this is an excellent idea, I think too, inviting the PC's to join us is inspired.

To provide some insight into the problems of the poor without a safety net, which, after all is one of the issues we both wish to address, I would suggest Down and Out in Paris and London by Orwell.

I would love a group read, and think having a combined read with the conservatives is a great idea, worthy of a try. Of the books recommended so far, I think the Orwell book might be too dated to create the basis for a relevant discussion. Of the other two suggested, I know nothing about them, but hope whatever we choose, it could be not too long, not too technical. I am not reading as fast as I once did.

Somewhat similar to the Orwell book, but more up to date, and not Britannicentric is Nickled and Dimed in America. Of course, it is centered in America which might be off-putting.

Two important books about man's heavy footprint on Earth:

Guns, Germs And Steel by Jared Diamond
The World Without Us - Alan Weisman

Two books recommended in this group that sounded interesting to me are:

Moral Politics: How Liberals and Conservatives Think by George Lakoff

The End of Poverty: Economic Possibilities for Our Time by Jeffrey Sachs

Don't know if they would be good basis for discussion?

Climate warming sounds good--and is certainly a topic of global interest.

I would really like to read The World Without Us. I didn't suggest it because it sounded a bit off the beaten track.

All the other books suggested so far I have already read, other than Nickled and Dimed, which I wouldn't mind reading. I read Down and Out in Paris and London about 20 years ago, when I was a teenager, so I'm sure I would have a different perspective on it now. I heard a bit of it on the radio and I think the issues it raises would still relevant.

Of the two books on global warming, Six Degrees is 384 pages and Heat is 320 pages and I get the feeling they both get quite technical in parts.

geneg:
I think this is an excellent idea, I think too, inviting the PC's to join us is inspired.

Well, since you are a member of both groups perhaps you would deliver the invitation? :-)

I was tempted to join the Political Conservatives too, but I know I'm a liberal with conservative tendencies*, rather than a conservative with liberal tendencies. That, and the fact that "conservative" in the US seems to cover a somewhat more right-wing spectrum than "conservative" in the UK.

*my conservative tendencies are 50% John Majorish nostalgia and 50% cynical disbelief in the ability of government to do anything properly.

I've just received a copy of The World Without Us and so would be happy to participate in a discussion about that. For additional consideration, I'd like to point out that Noam Chomsky has released Interventions recently.

I have no problem reading about climate change, but I doubt we will get anyone from PC to join us. Most of us are more interested in interpersonal relations, the place of the state in the lives of its citizens, etc. In this country opposing climate change is as much a badge of political conservatism as is pro-life, pro-war (when well executed) and Clinton hatred, so I would not recommend a book on climate change for starters with them. That was one of the issues I was thinking about when I recommended the Orwell. In this country most have heard of Orwell from 1984 and Animal Farm, but not so much from his travels and essays, criticism, etc. Being from GB you probably got a lot more exposure to him than most Americans.

Anyway, I can go both ways, but we will be wasting our breath with them, at least at first, with climate change, and possibly Nickled and Dimed as well.

Maybe we should do a read for ourselves first, and then invite them when we read a less politically charged, but nonetheless relevant work.

Someone who could really help us out here would be Doug1943, but I'm not sure he pays attention to this group. If you can wait a day or two I will ask him what he thinks. It would be great if we could get BGP interested in this as well. Listening to him and Doug is like getting a free education in political science.

P.S. (edit) I've heard several discussions and radio shows about The World Without Us and it sounds pretty pointless. If you want to see the world without us, visit the jungles of Mayan Central America. This book sounds like the old eco-crowd that thought the only way to save the earth was to destroy humanity. Anyway, let us know what you think.

Maybe The World Without Us would be a good starting point for discussion by PCs and P&Ls? If I understand its premise, the book establishes the extent of our footprint on the world. Could lead to discussions of limits, basic human objectives and strategies, our interests v others', etc. Not B&W in either camp, I don't think--although I do know one ecologist (a Rhodes scholar, don't you know) who could maintain eye contact while stating that he would sacrifice one of his grandchildren for survival of an endangered species. (Even an amoeba, I asked. "Yes." I didn't believe him!) We were discussing the dichotomy in the environmental community between those motivated by human health v biological integrity of the ecosystem.

I think we could wait a few days to give time for the conservatives to be approached. Of all the books mentioned so far I think Moral Politics: How Liberals and Conservatives Think could be the one for both groups.

Oops. Sorry.

I just floated the idea. Is there any way to take that down.

I would suggest that if the joint read were to be enacted, the PC's get equal say in choosing the book.

And as for recommendations for books, I like the idea of Orwell. He's ideologically neutral enough that both sides might see some point in reading the book. I think the idea of offering Lakoff to the PC crowd might be the equivalent of asking the P&L group to read Russell Kirk.

I like the basic idea. First book that pops into mind is The Left Hand of God by Rabbi Michael Lerner. We could invite the Happy Heathens, too. The touchstone is way wrong.

Is this still alive in another thread?

How about a book on the US drug war? As far as I can tell, it doesn't directly criticize either the liberal or conservative stances, so it should be fair game. But a discussion from both view points could be really interesting.

15 - I like your US drug war idea. Do you have something in mind?
I was getting really paranoid that nobody else posted after #14. I was worrying that my suggestion was so bad that everybody ran away!

kathi - I can't tell you how often I feel like a thread killer (maybe I am). But, I can't see how your suggestion could have chased anyone away. I think we're all just waiting for more suggestions.

I didn't have any suggestions in mind, I was hoping Jesse would come up with something. I'll see what I can find.

There's always Eric Schlosser's Reefer Madness, but I suspect most PCs won't like his stance.

Ideas: All but the last will be hard to find.

Smoke and Mirrors: The War on Drugs and the Politics of Failure by Dan Baum ==> focus on Nixon ramping up enforcement and Carter thinking about legalization
Drug War Heresies: Learning from Other Vices, Times, and Places by Robert J. Maccoun ==> "nonpartisan objective analysis"
Americas Longest War by Steven B. Duke and Albert C. Gross ==> very good reviews on amazon, "Arguing that many of the social and economic costs popularly attributed to drug use are in fact consequences of drug criminalization"
Drugs: Should We Legalize, Decriminalize or Deregulate? by Jeffrey A. Schaler (Editor) ==> collection of aritcles, good reviews on amazon, "Dramatic shifts in attitude have characterized America's relation to drugs..."
Busted: Stone Cowboys, Narco-Lords, and Washington's War on Drugs by Mike Gray (Editor) ==> another collection of articles, mixed reviews on amazon, but might be easier to find
Reefer Madness : Sex, Drugs, and Cheap Labor in the American Black Market by Eric Schlosser ==> This is the only one I've read (or seen). Only part is on marijuana and some very long prison sentences. It's easy to read, but only OK. This would be by far the easiest to find.

I know I was the person who first mooted the idea of a joint read with the political conservatives, but now I think maybe that was a bad idea, because it's going to be 10 times as difficult to agree on a book we both want to read, and I didn't see a great deal of enthusiasm for the idea on the PC site.

How about we allow a few more days for people to put up suggestions, and then decide on a book?

>20 Akiyama: Akiyama. Maybe the selection of a book and the actual discussion could be moved to your Politics and Society group--so that PCs and P&Ls can jointly select and discuss a book on neutral ground?

(More than one PC member seemed to support discussion of a book in neutral Politics & Society. Maybe best to choose it there as well? List in P&S all the books nominated in PCs and P&L. Ask each person who chooses to participate to name no more than three that they would discuss. After (week?), announce the one with most votes--or schedule a runoff if very close.)