Iris Murdoch

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Iris Murdoch

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1avaland
toukokuu 19, 2007, 4:30 pm

I haven't read any Iris Murdoch. What can you tell me about her writing and what do you recommend. I just picked up a copy of A Word Child at a library sale this morning...

2Hera
toukokuu 20, 2007, 12:52 am

*puts up hand and jumps up and down on seat - ooh, ask me, miss!!

*cough. I 'did' Iris Murdoch for my final Honours dissertation at university. Lucky me, my tutor on that course was Peter Conradi, the author of a biography and several very clever academic studies of her work. Even better, he was my personal tutor and took a shine to me (unlike most of the others, whom I offended in one-or-other of my gauche ways).

I hated her at first, then read The Red and the Green and found it laugh-out-loud funny. From then on I read everything I could get at my local library (I was staying with my mum for a couple of weeks) and they had about ten of her novels, so I just sat down and read them. By the time I got to start the course, I'd read seventeen of them and re-read at least five. This caused a lot of disgust amongst my fellow students and I finally got a reputation for being a girly swot rather than a drunken hippy poet/raver.

I digress. Sorry, that's me: can't tell a story without a wander down memory lane. Anyhow, my favourite Murdoch novels are:

The Good Apprentice - my favourite and the one I based my dissertation around. (My dissertation was a bit 'deep' and was to do with Platonic ideals of 'good' and how 'to kalon' is represented in Murdoch's novels, particularly the Good characters).
The Bell - about a Commune, I liked this one.
The Black Prince - the BP in question is 'love' (more properly, Eros in the Greek sense).
An Accidental Man - funny and 'deep'.
Bruno's Dream - odd but memorable, not one if you don't like spiders.
The Red and the Green - set in Ireland and quite witty.
The Sea, The Sea - outstanding, actually.

Any questions, let me know: I've finally got my Murdoch novels back and would be delighted to get them out, with my trusty - oh, damn, my husband sold my copy of Peter Conradi's book on her novels - pink cover, with a pic of Herself. A good book if you can get hold of it, I'll try to get a link / remember what it was called.

xx

3avaland
toukokuu 20, 2007, 7:00 am

Wow. Thanks. I hadn't expected such a enthusiastic response.

4aluvalibri
toukokuu 20, 2007, 11:33 am

And now I have one more writer to add to my list....(sighs, but pretends to be sorry...)

5Hera
toukokuu 20, 2007, 11:48 am

Ooh sorry about that: I'm surprised at my own fervour! *lol.

Okay, to add a 'down' side:

Why I initially loathed her was for all the reasons I loathe Viriginia Woolf. She writes about the super-rich and the eccentric. Now, as a young and rash Marxist, I couldn't abide that. But she's so humane and so funny and so wise, I couldn't resist her for very long. She can be described as a neo-Platonist: she compares Buddhist, Socratic and Christian teachings' intersections. She has elements of 'magic realism', which is rare in English literature (of course, she's actually Irish).

I've said on LT that I haven't ever felt 'improved' by fiction, but that's not actually true. I 'did' Murdoch for about a year, during which time I 'discovered' Plato, Socrates, Weil, Wittgenstein, Zen, meditation, Don Cupitt, Jesus' speeches and much more. She's one of those writers that make you read even more - sorry for those groaning at the thought of TBR piles to come!

It also reminds me that I have several essays on Murdoch that I need to get back from my old university; they kept them, then a lecturer said he'd lost them in his loft. Grrr. I'm going to have to offer to go round with a step-ladder. That should scare him. ;D

6aluvalibri
toukokuu 21, 2007, 7:42 am

You loathe VW? :-(((((
I did my dissertation of VW's letters, and learnt a lot of things I did not know about her life, things that made me feel very sorry for her, such as her being raped by her older brother and her lifelong depression, which ultimately led to her suicide.
True, she did write about the upper class, but that was the milieu she knew better as she belonged to it. Apart from the subject(s), which you do not care for, don't you find her style intriguing?

7avaland
toukokuu 21, 2007, 9:54 am

Sounds like there should be another thread for Woolf...whatdaya think, aluvalibri? (then all the VW lovers and loathers can find the discussion!) :-)

8aluvalibri
toukokuu 21, 2007, 10:04 am

Avaland, there actually is a thread for VW, started by amandameale. It is called "I prefer men to cauliflowers" but, alas, it is not that active. The last post was by byzanne, on May 9.

9bleuroses
toukokuu 21, 2007, 10:38 am

I own 5 Iris Murdoch's and have read but one An Unofficial Rose and recall liking it quite well. I've started The Sea, The Sea at least 4 or 5 times but it didn't grab me. She's one of those authors that I really want to like - so I'll try again. Especially now after Hera's raves!

A.S. Byatt's favourite author was Iris Murdoch - and A.S. Byatt is mine - which is why I picked her up in the first place.

There is a wonderful little film called "Antonia & Jane" that features Murdochs novels. Jane's boyfriend insists that she reads aloud to him prior to, well, fooling around. It's very funny.

aluvalibri....I too, have always thought you should start a VW group. Since there is one already, maybe give it a kick start!

avaland...I'm back!

10literarysarah
toukokuu 21, 2007, 4:25 pm

The only Iris Murdoch novel I've read is The Sea, The Sea. I loved it and raved about it for weeks. My husband finally picked it up and now it's one of the books he consistently recommends to people. (We generally have very different tastes so this was a delight.)

I found the novel complex and surprising--not that it's hard to read but rather that I didn't really know what to expect next. It is a bit slow at the start but it's worth it in the end!

I think I'll have to add more Iris Murdoch to my "to be read" pile.

11rmckeown
toukokuu 21, 2007, 5:50 pm

I must pile on with Hera. Somehow, I got a copy of The Book and the Botherhood, but I hated it in the first 50 pages. (I adhere to the "rule of 50"). Shortly thereafter, I was hospitalized for a few days, and asked my (then) wife to bring me the pile of books by my lounge chair. She brought the wrong pile -- all discards -- including TBATB. I had already read most of the others, so I tried the Murdoch again one quiet evening about 6:00 PM. I was hooked and read straight through to morning! I fell in love with her then and there.
When I got out, I ordered all the rest of her novels, and I have about a half a dozen to go. While they are "uneven in spots," I do generally admire the writing tremendously.
One I have not read is Jackson's Dilemma -- after reading Iris: An Elegy and seeing the film, I am afraid. I am sure I will save it to last.
My thesis and dissertation was on Joyce and Oriental Iconography, but I wish I had discovered Iris sooner.
I did learn my lesson, however, and I divorced that first deliverer of bad books, and I have now (very happily) married a librarian!
The Bell, The Black Prince, The Sea, The Sea, and, of course, TBATB are my favorites.

12tomcatMurr
Muokkaaja: toukokuu 22, 2007, 7:57 am

I'm going to join the pile. (Hera, can you breathe down there?) I'm also a huge Iris Murdoch fan. My favourite of her works is her first novel, Under The Net, which is laugh-out-loud funny, wise, humane and profound all at the same time. In my view it was her best book: many of her others are very dark indeed.
I also highly recommend her non-fiction philosophical works: Existentialist and Mystics. As well as a magnificent novelist,
she is the greatest expository prose stylist in the language.

13Hera
toukokuu 22, 2007, 9:26 am

Ah, now, Aluvalibri, hear me out, sweetie. (#6)

I can't abide her novels except Orlando, which I adore. Really.

BUT

As a person, she ROCKED.

I read her diaries, read a few biographies, her essays, EVERYTHING about her and by her I could for about three years. As a writer, which I struggle to achieve, she is a total role model and hero. The essay 'A Room Of One's Own' should be required reading for ALL girls from the time they can write.

Love her style of writing, yes; but it's her friends that piss me off: so right wing, so dismissive of the working class, so decadent in London. For some reason, the Bloomsbury Group don't 'do it' for me, though I love some of the periphery writers like Lytton Strachey (genius historian and so witty), Eliot (obliquely and not for long), Pound (whom they viewed as an annoyance, but who wouldn't?!).

Woolf is one of those rare writers whose life I admire and cherish but whose writings I find meh. xx

14Romanus
toukokuu 22, 2007, 9:48 am

> #2

Was Peter Conradi's book the one titled "The Saint and the Artist: A study of Iris Murdoch's works" ?

15aluvalibri
toukokuu 22, 2007, 10:07 am

Oh, Hera, I guess I had misunderstood. Apologies :-))
Yes, the members of the Bloomsbury group were a bit, shall we say, "stuck up", but most of them belonged to a certain social stratus and, in my opinion, they would have sounded absolutely phony if they had tried to pose as proletarians (forgive my word's choice, but right now nothing else comes to mind).
I totally agree on Orlando and A Room of One's Own, and I also LOVE the description of how the light touches different objects in The Waves. Yes, VW definitely could do wondrous things with her pen!

16Hera
toukokuu 22, 2007, 10:12 am

OMG yes, that's the book, Romanus!

It's really good, by the way. I've read a lot of books on Murdoch (understandably). When I left university, Peter saw me in town and told me I should write a book about her. I laughed, but he was serious, bless him. He liked my final essay very much and was such a wonderful personal tutor (though I must add several people, including my ex-husband, found him intimidating; he did NOT suffer fools gladly).

I owe Peter a lot. If anyone is lucky enough to have him as a tutor, or knows where he is now, pass on my regards. He's a wonderful person and was a great influence on my life (he introduced me to Zen and really mentored me properly). What a great guy. I can't praise him highly enough without sounding like I'm in love with him.

His Murdoch anectdote that made me laugh, a lot: he was having dinner in a really nice restaurant with her. She was such a huge influence on him and he was so overcome with fandom, he offered to show her his yoga moves. So he stood on his head to show off for her. Hahaha. That's so sweet, it tells you a lot about him.

Anyway, personal stuff aside, I have to 'fess I haven't read anything by her for years. I couldn't bear to watch the recent films because I was very upset when she died, I found her last years harrowing to observe even from a distance. It sent rather a pall over my enjoyment of her. However, I have The Good Apprentice next to my bed and I will be reading that and An Accidental Man again this week, followed by Under The Net, which I'd forgotten about and also love.

xx

17avaland
toukokuu 22, 2007, 4:39 pm

This is all most enlightening, thanks. Please! continue the conversation, it's fascinating.

>8 aluvalibri:, 9 Well, I was kind of hoping you might consider a VW thread on this group rather than a separate group entirely. I often think we LTers are too quick to make new groups; groups do seem to require a certain amount of maintenance to keep them fresh and moderately active (I know, I started the Atwoodians group...). I find so many groups so inactive, like users have their attentions infinitely divided. I know when I joined LT I started signing up for every international-flavored group (i.e. African Lit, Asian Lit, fans of Russian Lit...etc) but I couldn't pretend to keep up with them all so I created "Reading Globally" - one place to discuss all. I have been sorely tempted to join many single author groups but I know I can't contribute meaningfully to that many. That's just me, though.

18demaios Ensimmäinen viesti
kesäkuu 5, 2007, 6:53 pm

Just joined LT to urge you read Iris Murdoch. I don't get to read much (sacrilege!) anymore, but relish the time spent immersing myself in these books over the years. I started with Henry and Cato, adored The Black Prince, The Sacred and Profane Love Machine. They are all wonderful--filled with muddled, complicated, frustrating characters.

Enjoy!

Sue

19kiwidoc
heinäkuu 13, 2007, 1:07 pm

#11 McKeown

Don't you think Elegy for Iris was rather disappointing. Did it do any Iris justice at all?

It seemed more like a cathartic expose for John Bayley and it actually made me dislike him rather. Maybe that is unfair - I did read it a few years ago.

Maybe the film was better - certainly anything with Judi Dench in it is worth watching.

20lauralkeet
heinäkuu 14, 2007, 7:02 am

>19 kiwidoc:: karenwardill, I did not read Elegy for Iris but I very much enjoyed the film. The Judy Dench factor was a part of it. And the portrayal of their marriage and relationship was touching. It was also my first encounter with Iris Murdoch, so I came to it with a fresh perspective. The film inspired me to read her work; that's a good thing!